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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Displaying 1601 contributions
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
We have been told that it is expected that the design will be complete in April next year, but we currently have no idea whatsoever about how the prison will be built. I understand that it is a big infrastructure project. Will you press the relevant people to provide an estimate of when the project can start? Am I right in thinking that, if you have a design plan at that point, you can cost it?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
You will see them in April.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
I take it from what you are saying to the committee that the new prison is a priority, you will see the design plans in April and then you will start to release the relevant capital to get work started. Is that fair?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
I understand that you cannot answer that question. I suppose that I would like to think that the Government is pressing the Crown for an answer. You are coming to the committee asking us to endorse the extension, but I do not think there is any justification for the Crown asking for it. I am less sympathetic to the extension to that time limit.
Can I ask you about the letter, which I have only just seen? I understand that you are consulting on making permanent measures that would include electronic signing of documents, virtual attendance at criminal courts and national jurisdiction for callings from custody—there is a list of things that you are asking to be made permanent. We will not be able to cover this today, but can I highlight a few areas of concern? Have you discussed national jurisdiction with the legal profession, for example? That must have huge implications for where people are tried and where the lawyers have to be.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 1 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
Anyone who has ever appeared in court as a witness will probably have found it quite a traumatic experience. From what you have described, nothing is black and white, and questions can be confusing. Is there a way of drawing a distinction? To me as a layperson, there are people who have had trauma in their lives, there is the trauma of someone who is the victim in the case—the trauma that that person experienced that has to come out—and there is the court experience, which can itself be traumatic. Would you agree that there are different elements to be considered?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 1 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
You certainly convinced me. You answered a lot of practical questions for me. That is where my line of questioning comes from—trying to apply all this to a system that, as John Watt said, is not the same, in that you all do different things.
My first question is to Laura Buchan from the Crown Office. David Fraser said that we have a court system with limited capacity to prevent what victims always complain about, which is the trauma of bumping into the person they have accused. I have had this conversation with the Lord Advocate at least once: the trauma of victims trying to find out where their cases are is a significant factor. I support all that has been said, but I am a bit concerned that we do not fix the things that are causing lots of trauma. As I said to the earlier panel, I am a layperson trying to understand that there is the trauma that people have had in their lives before they were offended against, there is the trauma of people who have been offended against and there is the trauma of what the system is doing to them. Can anything be done to make the information from the Crown easier to access?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 1 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
What do you mean by “gateway”? In simple terms, if you are a victim of crime, or even a witness who has been called, should you not be able to call someone easily, get through and ask where your case is likely to be in the pipeline? Is that fair?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 1 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
Thank you.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 1 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
Do you see there being a contradiction? In the court system, there are thousands and thousands of witnesses, so there will be a bit of diversity there. The court system is, as Katy Clark said, adversarial, but the stories of all witnesses have to be tested in court. If they contradict themselves or if, to be controversial, it does not sound as though they are telling the truth, you would have to accept, whether we like the court system or not, that there must be a way of balancing trauma-informed training with—I think you said this yourself—the need to not interfere with the natural course of justice, to make sure that any contradictions in evidence are also picked up.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 1 November 2023
Pauline McNeill
Thank you.
We heard from the previous panel of experts that trauma-informed practice is a universal application. I am trying to think about that for procurators fiscal in court. Is it practical to treat every single victim or witness as if they had a trauma? What trauma are we looking at? Is it the trauma of being in court? How will you train and advise your procurators fiscal and advocate deputes on court practices? I know that you cannot answer that question today, but it is what I would like an answer to in the long run. How are we going to balance this with fair justice to ask robust questions in court of all witnesses?