Chamber and committees

You will have read the 20 August 2015 submission. The timing of the announcement was to do with the tender timescale. In fact, the 20 August submission talks about—I am paraphrasing rather than quoting directly from it—getting close to the point where the tenders would expire. I think that there had already been a bit of an extension. The timing of the announcement was driven entirely by the timetable of the tender process.

There are two questions in there, and I will separate them. I had no awareness or knowledge that CMAL had concerns about the announcement. Obviously, I have heard the concerns that it has expressed in evidence to this committee, for example. However, I have reviewed the briefing that I had that day and, far from having a knowledge that CMAL was concerned about that, my briefing included a set of questions and answers that had been prepared by CMAL, and the list of people who were due to attend included the then chief executive of CMAL, so nothing would have given me any sense that CMAL was unhappy with any of that.

On whether that was an appropriate thing to do, I have probably covered that already. On Government announcements of preferred bidders and contracts, I am not sitting here saying that that happens with every single contract, but nor would it be correct that the announcement on this contract was somehow abnormal or unusual. I have referred to how, a few months later—it was me who did this—CalMac was announced as the preferred bidder for the ferry services contract. As I said, you can very easily find examples of other Governments on these islands doing similar things. It was not in any sense abnormal to announce a preferred bidder contract.

At that stage, no.

You are obviously talking about what came to the transport minister in the context of the 8 October decision about the final contract award, which is distinct from preferred bidder. As I said, I was not aware of that at that time. I am obviously now very aware of that and, as I said in my response to the convener’s questions earlier, have fully reviewed all the paperwork that was before Derek Mackay at that point.

I am very familiar with it, Mr Hoy.

I have seen the outcome of what I asked officials to do. I will certainly look to see whether that can be provided to the committee; I do not see why it could not.

I addressed that point in my opening remarks. As I have said before, I deeply regret the impact on island communities. The seriousness with which we take issues of connectivity to our islands, of which ferries are the critical part, is reflected in our overall ferries plan, in recent decisions that we have taken on the procurement of additional vessels and in our determination, notwithstanding the deep regret that we feel, to complete those ferries and ensure that all lessons are learned. That is very clear in my mind and I hope that it is clear from the Government overall.

Craig Hoy made a number of comments in his question to me. I would refute many of them, but clearly I am not able—and nor would I try—to refute the fact that this contract was not delivered in the way that we would have expected and wanted, nor has it come close to that. We can get into the issues of why that is the case. However, that does not lead inevitably to a conclusion that the procurement process was any of the ways that Craig Hoy has chosen to describe it.

Allegations have been made about the procurement process. Craig Hoy mentioned the BBC documentary. To be clear, ministers and I are not aware of impropriety in the procurement process. However, the allegations in the BBC “Disclosure” programme are serious and need to be properly investigated. When those allegations were reported, I asked the permanent secretary to proactively contact the Auditor General. Of course, the Auditor General has since said that he is looking at those allegations.

I can go through my understanding of each of them. The term “cheat sheet” that Craig Hoy used relates, I think, to the statement of operational and technical requirements that it has been alleged that Ferguson’s had. CMAL has been very clear that, to the best of its knowledge, it did not come from CMAL. In fact, I do not even think that the BBC alleged that; the BBC was clear in its programme that some design consultant that Ferguson’s commissioned was probably the source of it.

There are serious issues here. However, knowing how serious this committee is, I hope that it will not prejudge its outcome and that it looks at all of those things. The experience with the contract is clearly not acceptable, but it is important, if we are to genuinely learn lessons, that we do not come to summary judgments in the way that Craig Hoy’s question would suggest. Instead, we need to go through all these things rigorously and systematically and try, as best we can, to get to where the failings actually were, in order that we can learn the right lessons.

You may want to expand on what you mean. All evidence that I give before a committee is as transparent as it can be. I am trying to be very clear with the committee about the decisions that I am speaking about and about those that I had knowledge of at the time versus those that I now have knowledge of but was not part of. I am being as open and transparent as possible with the committee.

After I give evidence, it is for the committee to decide if there are points for clarification that it wants to address. I cannot determine what questions the committee asks; that is for you. I will answer all of them to the best of my ability. I hope that that has been your experience so far in this evidence session.

My differences with Alex Salmond on other matters are well known, but he was the First Minister and Ferguson’s, the last remaining commercial shipbuilder on the upper Clyde, faced the threat of extinction and closure, so he was right to seek to find a way to save the shipyard. Any First Minister would have been right to do that. Although I may now have many differences with Alex Salmond, I would not criticise him for making every effort to find a future for the shipyard.

I was not advised on 20 August. As, I am sure, we will come on to discuss, 20 August was when the decision on FMEL being the preferred bidder was taken. That decision was taken by Keith Brown because Derek Mackay was on holiday at the time. I know that you have gone through all of that with Derek Mackay. I was not party to that decision, but I was, of course, briefed some days later, in the run-up ahead of the announcement of the preferred bidder.

I am being as open as I can be. I deal with several things on a daily basis, and this was some years ago.