As I set out in my opening remarks, the motion is fairly straightforward and, in relation to the public reform legislation, it is apt, so I am happy to just move it.

I move,

That the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee recommends that the National Smart Ticketing Advisory Board (Public Services Reform) (Scotland) Order 2024 [draft] be approved.

I wonder whether George Beale-Pratt could answer the question about their terms of reference.

That is correct. The membership includes a chairperson, operators of different modes of transport, transport authorities, including local transport authorities—Margaret Roy is a representative—and passenger and accessibility representatives. Transport Scotland is also a member, as well as some board advisers, who are non-voting.

Good morning, and thank you for inviting me to discuss the addition of the new National Smart Ticketing Advisory Board to the Public Services Reform (Scotland) Act 2010. The board commenced operation in November 2023 and is a product of the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019. It will advise the Scottish ministers on topics including smart ticketing arrangements, a national technological standard for smart ticketing and the strategic development of smart ticketing in Scotland.

We intend to add the board to schedule 5 to the 2010 act. That would mean that by order under section 14 of the act, the Scottish ministers could

“make any provision which they consider would improve the exercise of”

the board’s functions,

“having regard to efficiency ... effectiveness, and ... economy.”

Adding the board to schedule 5 to the 2010 act is in line with Scottish Government policy and is considered best practice for new public bodies.

As the board is new, it is not expected that any provision will be needed in the near future to improve the exercise of the board’s functions, but this instrument would confer a power on the Scottish ministers to make such a provision in the future, should it be required.

In accordance with section 25(4) of the 2010 act, the board has been consulted in relation to the proposal to make this order. The consultation took place at the first meeting of the board on 28 November 2023, in person, with all members and the chairperson of the board in attendance. As a result of that consultation, the board confirmed that it was content with the proposal, and no other representations were received. No changes to the proposal were therefore necessary.

Adding the board to the 2010 act will have no financial impacts. I am happy to take any questions from the committee.

The first meeting of the board was in November, at which time we were moving to the end stages of the fair fares review. Interoperability of ticketing is a key aspect of that work. Individuals who are on the board would have had the opportunity to input their organisations’ views on the review, apart from anything else.

In terms of the board’s capacity and capability, senior people are operating at board level and there are advisers who are specialists in their area. The chair has been involved in ticketing systems and procurement previously and has extensive experience on that.

I will meet with the chair in the next couple of weeks to go through the board’s proposed work plan—as you said, that plan has to come to ministers to be approved. Part of that process will be for me to listen to what board members are saying, because the whole point is that they will want to say what needs to be done. I provide ministerial oversight and am not a technological expert in ticketing. I expect that expertise to come from the board and from the Transport Scotland members who support the board. There will be steps as to what changes need to be made.

George Beale-Pratt might want to explain a bit more about what the board might look at, but I am interested in the point that people want to use mobiles instead of cards that are interoperable. We have talked about the Glasgow tripper being a success. When the ticket became available on mobiles, that increased the bus companies’ uptake fivefold. However, barcodes and QR, or quick response, codes are more of an issue. The technological standards are key. Obviously, the board can advise about the capability of different organisations to change or adapt, and whether that causes them issues or otherwise.

George, will you explain a bit more about what we expect from the work programme’s scope and coverage?

We need to give the board the space to do its work, which is multimodal and covers different areas—we have representatives with experience from ScotRail and ferries, so the work takes place across those areas. I am open to sharing what we can when we can. I will speak to the chair in a couple of weeks, and one of the things that I will explore with them is how and when we can share, so that you can understand and keep on top of what is happening around that capability.

George, are you happy to answer?

It was a very interesting debate—thank you very much, convener.

Motion agreed to.

Ideally, yes, but the pressures in the bus market, particularly coming through the pandemic with the reduced number of people using the bus service, are challenging that. That is why it is more important than ever that our local authorities look at models that can help to provide a reliable, sustainable service in their area that is less reliant on subsidy because, over the piece, there is enough income. That also includes trying to increase patronage.

There are three different models: the bus company, the partnership—the regulations that you have before you are about objections to setting partnerships up in a more formal way—and franchising. We expect to provide—this might help in relation to the previous question—more guidance and help, including by sharing best practice that will have been learned from elsewhere in relation to the different models. It is early doors when it comes to local authorities setting up their own bus companies. It is up to them; it is not up to us. We would keep a watching brief, as would the committee, but this is an issue that you might want to raise with the transport officers, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities or the councils themselves.

There are different bus markets in different areas, and some are stronger than others. The patronage of buses has not recovered to its previous level. The vast majority of local authorities, apart from in Lothian, rely on private operators. There is a tension if councils want to set up their own bus company, which would then be in competition with those operators; there are also competition law issues in relation to bus operators. At the same time, although they are dependent just now on all the different operators and companies for the sustainability of bus services, some local authorities may want to take that step of setting up their own companies. The Transport (Scotland) Act 2019 allows them to do that, but they have to take the step themselves and have confidence that they are in a position to do that. That is for them; it is not for us.

We can keep a watching brief, and that is what we would do. When I visit local authorities—I have visited a number of them—they can share with me the state that they have got to and the steps that they are taking but, again, that is for them. It is not for me to account for them in this committee, because I do not want to misrepresent them in any way.