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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 November 2025
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Displaying 373 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

That is helpful.

I will go to Vicky Crichton, and then to Kay Springham. With regard to the idea of improving scrutiny and accountability in relation to secondary legislation, should we be looking at any safeguards or controls?

11:30  

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

It goes back to the case-by-case basis that was mentioned earlier. I will have to wind up so I return to Rosemary Agnew. In an earlier answer, you spoke about the co-design core principles. Will you give me an idea of when a framework bill is the wrong approach? As Adam Stachura has just said, for the national care service, is a framework the wrong approach? Please give us your insight on that, as well. I am throwing it all at you now, unfortunately, Rosemary, but I have a limited timeframe.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

I want to narrow things down a little bit. The information that you are giving is very interesting, but I want to delve into NFU Scotland’s criteria, which the convener started to look at. After all, we are looking at this from a scrutiny and accountability point of view when it comes to secondary legislation.

In your opinion, if we are looking at this through a scrutiny and accountability lens, should there be additional safeguards and controls to ensure appropriate use of framework legislation, given the secondary legislation that will follow? I will start with you, Mr Clancy, because I think that that follows on very nicely from your last answer.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

To follow on from the other answers, if Henry VIII powers are appropriate at the right time, how can we improve that scrutiny and accountability? That is the angle that we are looking at when it comes to subordinate legislation.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

Absolutely. Thank you. Kay, do you have anything to add?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

I did not in any way want to intimate that the work that you produce is not top quality—that is not what I meant. It is about the idea that we are not really creating good law.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

A factor that you might take into consideration is whether it makes more sense to move everything into secondary legislation.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

But you would not get involved in stakeholder engagement at the drafting stage.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

Absolutely. I ask the question of the other panel members: is this a sensible way to go? I see nodding heads.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

Good morning—it is still morning. There is much that I want to pick up on, so bear with me.

You have highlighted the drafting process. Thank you, Diggory, for doing that. I am picking up from you that it is not drafters who come up with whether something will be framework legislation or whether policy will be enacted through primary legislation. Drafting is just about the morphosis of an idea as it starts to go through.

I asked this question before. Is there, in effect, a line? As you go through the process, do you say, “This has been the conceptual idea, this is what we are trying to do, and this is what the minister is trying to get to. We are building up the bill and moving it forward, and now we’re drafting it. Now it has crossed the line that we have moved it towards. It will stay in framework or skeleton form”, or do you say “We now can see that there is a definite line and we can move this forward”? Is there a process like that?