Chamber and committees

Can we ask the Crown Office whether it has any alternatives and whether it has done anything at all to find any solutions since it met us last? We were concerned then, and we saw the reaction of the Lord Advocate. I do not know whether the Crown Office has done anything, so can we ask it?

I think that it is an on-going issue. I have been getting quite a lot of emails on it from constituents in Edinburgh and the Lothian region. I had a business in Dalry—I was involved in Dalry a long time ago—so I know that toilets closing in the Dalry area puts extra pressure on local businesses. If people come in—pregnant women, people with diabetes and so on—because there is no public toilet in the area, that puts extra pressure on local businesses. Sometimes, it can put staff under pressure; if someone wants to use the toilet but staff do not allow it, that can cause them trouble.

I am not really sure about this—it is an on-going issue and we need to consider it. It is a mental health issue, too. Being new to the committee, I do not know how long the petition has been with the committee, but I feel that, as the issue is on-going, we need to consider it and support local businesses. In Edinburgh, almost all the public toilets have been or are being closed, so where can people go?

I thank Liz Smith for bringing this important issue to the chamber.

To be able to swim is to be able to exercise, socialise and learn vital water safety skills. That is especially true for our children, for whom swimming is a life-saving skill, and for older citizens, for whom swimming can be a lifeline to allow for independent exercise and socialising. All the vital contributions that swimming pools bring to our society are under threat. Without them, we run the risk of a whole generation being unable to swim and communities being without health and social activities.

Swimming is a great safety resource and preventive measure to teach our children water safety. My constituent Lewis Condy has been petitioning tirelessly for the inclusion of swimming in schools. Before I was a member, the Public Petitions Committee considered the petition. It heard evidence about the unequal access to swimming lessons and the link between a child’s social and economic background and their opportunity to learn to swim. That means that children are already at a disadvantage in relation to the benefits that swimming can bring because of poverty. Are we really going to make that worse by removing community swimming pools altogether?

A lack of funding has hit the sector hard. I repeat: a lack of funding. That is clear in West Lothian, where three pools have closed. Lewis told me that Broxburn swimming pool, which is one of those affected,

“wasn’t just a swimming pool, it was someone’s rehabilitation. It was their therapy to improve mental health. It was a social club to meet with friends. It was the livelihood of local swimming clubs. It was somebody’s job.”

Lots of disabled or elderly people rely on swimming as the only form of exercise that they can do safely. One constituent told me that closures have given him “sleepless nights”. Another constituent was unable to access council swimming lessons for her children due to extremely high demand. Private swimming lessons are expensive, so lower-income families once again lose out. On this issue, I wrote to the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport, and I was told that there was no time available to meet. I then wrote to the First Minister—I have received no response. Now, there is no mention of swimming pools in the new programme for government.

The UK Government allocated £63 million to leisure centres with swimming pools in England. When I asked the Scottish Government, the response confirmed that it has benefited from

“consequentials ... added to the overall Scottish block.”—[Written Answers, 19 June 2023; S6W-18739.]

Why was that money not directly invested in saving our pools or providing communities with a natural health service? Why is the Scottish Government not doing enough to save our pools?

Can I just clarify whether it is only West Lothian Council that is closing pools or whether that is happening everywhere else in Scotland? I totally agree with the minister that the number of swimmers and all the swimming going on in Scotland are positive things, but, by closing all the swimming pools in every council, are we not preventing Scotland from having future champions?

My constituent Wendy, who has struggled with joint pain for several years now, was finally added to the orthopaedics out-patient waiting list in June 2022. Last month, it was confirmed that she was on the waiting list for a knee replacement. The wait is currently two and a half years, which could take Wendy’s overall waiting time to more than five years. Wendy is in constant pain and her quality of life has been seriously impacted. Does the First Minister think that her wait time is acceptable? What is the Scottish Government doing to achieve its legal guarantee of 12 weeks for in-patient treatment under the Patient Rights (Scotland) Act 2011?

No—sorry.

Those countries were fighting for independence from Scotland—[Interruption.]

Will the minister give way?

To compare the experience of British rule in those countries to Scotland’s relationship with the rest of the UK is insulting. We must stop the rhetoric of Scotland as a colony and address the legacy of Scotland as a coloniser.

While SNP members talk to themselves about themselves, hide behind their ill-founded arguments and continue to fail to make the case for independence, Labour is focused on strengthening devolution and being the change that Scotland needs.

No—I have a long list to go through.

Scotland is not a colony. At the SNP convention at the weekend, Mhairi Black MP referred to Scotland becoming the 63rd country to gain independence from the UK. Such rhetoric followed an SNP MSP commenting in the chamber last year that it was “beyond belief” that a Labour MSP would support a motion celebrating Indian independence but not support Scottish independence.

In Kenya, during the Mau Mau uprising in 1952, there were widespread reports of detention camps, torture, sexual assault and brutal bodily harm. During colonial rule in India, the Amritsar massacre of 1919 saw protesters against colonial rule brought inside a walled garden and fired on until the guns ran out of ammunition. British rule also saw widespread famine and poverty. In 1943, up to 4 million Bengalis starved to death while millions of tonnes of wheat were exported to Britain. Are we actually comparing that to Scotland’s relationship with the UK?

No.

The SNP has said time and again that devolution is being undermined but, in fact, devolution is being trumped by two Governments that refuse to work together. It is being undermined by the Tories at Westminster and by the SNP here, at Holyrood, refusing to communicate and co-operate. While the two Governments cannot reach agreement, Scotland suffers.

The Scottish Government should be spending its time on the real problems that Scotland faces.