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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Current session: 14 May 2026 to 10 November 2026
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Displaying 35 contributions

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Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Lorna Slater

I have only one point. The programme for government focuses very heavily on prevention, which I think that we all support, but it seems to involve looking largely at health outcomes or preventing really devastating outcomes for households.

I found it useful that the papers mention demand reduction—that phrase is broad, in the sense that we can talk about things such as reducing litter in the streets to reduce the demand for street cleansers. In terms of how we scrutinise budgets, how will we be able to see the point at which demand reduction and prevention come into play? That is not always transparent, and it is politically very difficult—in fact, it is impossible—to remove money from acute and crisis services and put it into demand reduction and prevention. How will we scrutinise that and, in political terms, make it happen from budget to budget?

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Lorna Slater

The room.

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Lorna Slater

Do you envision that some sort of public body organisation would need to be created, at least temporarily, to oversee the redeployment? Should there be a line in the budget for a temporary agency that will manage the redeployment and retraining of public sector staff? Should we look out for something like that?

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Lorna Slater

Yes, thank you.

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Lorna Slater

Thank you.

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Lorna Slater

On the back of what Murdo Fraser discussed, I have a supplementary question, which is about front-line staff versus back-room staff. I find that discussion a bit frustrating. The headline always seems to be, “We won’t cut front-line staff; it’ll be those dreadful back-room people,” but no organisation that we have spoken to has said, “Oh, yeah, our back-room people are not very important.” Everybody is important in delivering an organisation’s aims.

If we define front-line services as public facing, they might involve the tabs that Victoria Carson spoke about. When I have interacted with public services, such as my general practitioner, I have found that some of the people I interact with feel more like gatekeepers preventing me from getting what I want, which is a prescription or to see the doctor, than people who are there to help me with those things. Do you have thoughts about whether the narrative around front-line services versus back-room services is helpful?

Public Service Reform Committee

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Lorna Slater

To change the topic, one of the elements in the programme for government that certainly jumped out at the Greens—I know that it did to many other colleagues as well—was the proposal to join up the environment agencies, similar to what was done in Wales.

In Wales, that led to substantial governance and oversight issues, including in relation to the management of money and effectiveness of the operations. However, those functions have not been broken up again—Wales is persisting with one big agency. As quickly as we could in the nine days since the programme for government was announced, we have spoken to stakeholders in the area, and everybody is on the fence. It could be fantastic, but it could be really, really bad.

I have two questions on that. First, given how substantial the change is, is it sensible to wrap it up in the year 1 bill with everything else, or would it be better to take a bit of extra time on the issue, partly because of the sensitivities, the sheer number of people and the powers that are involved? Secondly, what is your intention? What are you trying to achieve, specifically? The programme for government refers to removing “unnecessary barriers”. What unnecessary barriers do you mean?

Public Service Reform Committee

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Lorna Slater

Thank you for sending us the progress report, cabinet secretary. Data sharing, which has already come up quite a lot in this committee, and “digital workforce” are coloured amber or red in that report. Can you highlight the issues in those areas and your plans for tackling them?

Public Service Reform Committee

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Lorna Slater

Is there a team leading on that? What resources are being put into the project?

Public Service Reform Committee

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Lorna Slater

It could work well in an environmental sense. Obviously, the cabinet secretary knows my political position on getting the Scottish Government to meet its international goals, such as the 30 by 30 conservation goal, and implement what it says it will do in its biodiversity strategy. When it comes to making things work better, what kind of framework are you thinking about, in terms of the national performance framework and international commitments? The area has many stakeholders, some of whom are very powerful stakeholders with powerful vested interests. Do you have a vision for what good looks like? What outcome are we trying to achieve? I hear what you say about duplication of effort and efficiency—we can all support that—but what is your vision for what environment agencies should do for Scotland?