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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 June 2025
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Displaying 2800 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

Given the conversation with the minister, I will take amendment 221 away and bring it back at stage 3 with amended wording, so that it does not cause a conflict.

Amendment 221 not moved.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

I call Miles Briggs to move or not move amendment 155.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 213 disagreed to.

Amendments 157 to 161 not moved.

Section 24 agreed to.

Section 25—Cross-border placements: effect of orders made outwith Scotland

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

Sections 12 and 13 have already been agreed. I understand what you are seeking to draw attention to today—it has not escaped me—but we have a process and a protocol to follow for stage 2 proceedings. As challenging as it may be, that is what we are obligated to do.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2024 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. The first item on our agenda is day 3 of our consideration of the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill at stage 2.

In our previous meetings, the committee considered amendments and agreed up to and including section 21 of the bill. We will therefore begin consideration of the amendments to the bill following section 21.

I welcome back the Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise and her supporting officials. The officials who are seated at the table are here to support the minister, but they are not able to speak in debates on amendments. Members should therefore direct their comments or questions for the Scottish Government to the minister.

Before we begin, I will briefly explain the procedure that we will follow this morning for anyone who is watching for the first time. The amendments that have been lodged on the bill have been grouped together. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. I will call the member who has lodged the first amendment in the group to speak to and move that amendment, and to speak to all the other amendments in the group. I will then call other members who have lodged amendments in that group. Members who have not lodged amendments in the group but who wish to speak should catch my attention. I will then invite the minister to contribute to the debate if she has not already spoken on the group. The debate on the group will be concluded by me inviting the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up.

After the debate on each group, I will check whether the member who moved the first amendment in the group wishes to press it to a vote or to seek to withdraw it. If they wish to press the amendment, I will put the question on that amendment. If a member wishes to withdraw their amendment after it has been moved, they must seek the agreement of other members to do so. If any member who is present objects to its withdrawal, the committee immediately moves to a vote on that amendment. If any member does not want to move their amendment when it is called, they should say, “Not moved.” Please note that any other member present may move the amendment. If no one moves the amendment, I will immediately call the next amendment on the marshalled list.

I remind everyone that only committee members are allowed to vote and that voting in a division is done by a show of hands. It is important that members keep their hands clearly raised until the clerking team has recorded the vote.

The committee is required to indicate formally that it has considered and agreed to each section of the bill, so I will put a question on each section at the appropriate point.

Now that we have covered housekeeping matters, we can start the substantive business.

After section 21

Amendments 207 to 209 not moved.

Amendment 210 moved—[Pam Duncan-Glancy].

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

No other member wants to come in, so I will hand over to you, minister, to respond to some of the points that were made from Martin Whitfield onward.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

There will be a division.

For

Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con)

Against

Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

The question is, that amendment 211 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

The behaviour is rather irrelevant when I say that it is about a child who has caused harm and a child who has been harmed. Making a descriptor of behaviour in that regard would muddy the waters a little bit.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Sue Webber

Now, breaking with tradition, I call myself, Sue Webber, to speak to an amendment in my name.

Amendment 221, which I lodged after last week’s committee meeting, is very simple. It is there specifically to ensure that a child will not be put in the same secure accommodation as the child who has caused them harm. It is not much more complicated than that. The intention behind the amendment is to ensure that children are safe in secure accommodation. As I said, it is very simple.