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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 July 2025
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Displaying 3405 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Kirsty’s screen has gone dark. Maybe one the other local authorities can respond while we see what is going on with her connection.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

We cannot see you, Kirsty. Maybe you should turn the lights on. [Laughter.]

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

I think that Stewart left the call. I am not sure whether he has managed to come back.

Oh—he is back. We will hear from him before I bring in Wendy Brownlie.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Wendy Brownlie is nodding.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Would you like to take a stab at that final question, Carrie?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

I confirm that we are agreed that we will close the petition.

I thank members for their consideration of the petitions. That brings the public part of today’s meeting to an end. We will consider our final agenda item in private.

11:48 Meeting continued in private until 12:09.  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Welcome back, everyone. The next item on our agenda is consideration of public petitions. First, we will consider PE1548, which was lodged by Beth Morrison. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to introduce national guidance on the use of restraint and seclusion in all schools. Full details of the petition’s aims are provided in members’ papers.

The committee last considered the petition at our meeting on 4 May, when we noted that a working group had been developing new human rights-based, non-statutory guidance to minimise the use of restraint in schools.

In May, the committee agreed to write to the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills to seek an update on timescales for the publication of the guidance. The cabinet secretary stated in her response that the draft guidance would be put to public consultation. That was launched on 21 June and closed yesterday.

The cabinet secretary noted in her letter that

“The draft guidance focusses on preventative support that should be in place to minimise restraint and provides detailed advice and safeguards that should be followed if restraint is used”

and that it

“outlines restraints that should never be used on children and young people, such as prone and other high risk physical restraints.”

The guidance also clarifies that, should any form of restraint be used, that should be recorded.

The cabinet secretary also explained that the Scottish Government will consider placing the guidance on a statutory basis should the non-statutory guidance fail to have the desired effect.

In response to the cabinet secretary’s letter, the petitioner stated that, although some of the guidance is “good”, she is

“extremely concerned that unless the guidance is statutory, nothing will change for the staff, or children affected.”

She also expressed her disappointment that the draft guidance does not have a dedicated section for children with additional support needs. She points out that children with ASN and disabilities are

“disproportionately affected by physical intervention”.

Do members have comments on the petition?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

That is great. What else have we got? We recognise that we want the guidance to be embedded and bedded in, with the caveats mentioned. We want to make sure that the guidance serves its purpose, and we reinforce that we have concerns about the lack of statutory underpinning. That will not prevent our closing the petition, but the matter is certainly on our radar.

Does the committee agree to close the petition, write to the cabinet secretary to ask what the Government’s next steps might be on moving forward with statutory underpinning and about how the guidance will be monitored, and share with the Scottish Government the issues that were raised by the petitioner? In relation to Graeme Dey’s point, we could also flag in our legacy paper that our successor committee might want to consider the petition. Are we all content with that approach?

Members indicated agreement.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

That is great.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Good morning, and welcome to the 25th meeting in 2022 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. Our first item of business is an evidence session with local authority representatives on funding for early learning and childcare. The session will inform our pre-budget scrutiny.

I welcome Margot Black, early years manager in the children and young people service, and Kirsty Maxwell, finance business partner for education and lifelong learning, finance and corporate governance, who are both from Scottish Borders Council; Wendy Brownlie, head of education performance and improvement at Argyll and Bute Council; and Carrie Lindsay, executive director of education and children’s services, and Stewart Westwater, quality improvement officer for early years, who are both from Fife Council.

I have a bit of housekeeping before we begin. We are having a hybrid meeting today, with all our witnesses participating virtually. I have asked committee members to address their questions to a particular witness or witnesses. However, other witnesses might wish to respond to the question, so I ask that witness to put an R in the chat box if they wish to speak. The clerks will be monitoring the chat box more than I will be, and we will bring people in when we can. I reassure the witnesses that it is not necessary to respond to every question. If you do not think that you have anything to add on a particular question, that is fine—please just let us know. If you are asked a question but do not have the information to hand, it is okay to say that. You will have the option to follow up in writing after the meeting.

We will crack on with the session. The first questions are from my colleague Graeme Dey.