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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 3405 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Redress Scheme

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

We move to questions from Michael Marra.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Redress Scheme

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

Thank you. We move to members’ questions, with the opening questions coming from Graeme Dey.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Redress Scheme

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

We can certainly do that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Redress Scheme

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

Good morning, and welcome to the first meeting in 2023 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. The first item on our agenda is an evidence session on the redress scheme. I welcome John Swinney, the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Covid Recovery. He is accompanied by Gillian Nixon, head of operations, and Carol Lamont, policy lead, both from the Scottish Government’s redress division—I welcome both of you, too. Oliver Mundell MSP is also attending the committee, as he remains interested in the work of Redress Scotland and how the redress scheme is working.

Thank you for joining us, and I wish you a happy new year. We will begin with a short opening statement from the Deputy First Minister.

Meeting of the Parliament

Portfolio Question Time

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

Does the cabinet secretary accept that ending teacher strikes and making teachers safe in the classroom must be a priority for education in 2023?

Meeting of the Parliament

National Drugs Mission

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

The level of drug use in Scotland’s prisons is a symptom of the failure to support people in our prisons, who demand as much right to recovery as people outside our Scottish Prison Service. Many of them want to escape the cycle of addiction and to access recovery programmes. The SNP Government slashed funding for addiction services—

Meeting of the Parliament

National Drugs Mission

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

I have not mentioned the right to recovery bill yet—I will do so in closing. Those elements are not included in the scope of the bill, which is all about access to recovery services, but I will refer to them later.

The second point that I want to highlight is the report’s recommendation that MAT standards be fully implemented by May 2024. I agree that MAT standards must be implemented, but it is disappointing that the Scottish Government failed to introduce MAT standards by April 2022, which was the original intention. The Scottish Conservatives are calling for urgent action to be taken to ensure that standards 1 to 5 and 6 to 10 are fully implemented by April 2023 and April 2024, respectively.

All of us, across the chamber, can agree that more action needs to be taken. As a result of the continuing crisis the Scottish Conservatives will not oppose drug consumption rooms—more specifically, the pilot of such rooms. However, we have serious reservations about their operation. We must remember that drug consumption rooms are not a magic bullet and will not solve all our problems. Chief Constable Iain Livingstone has said that we need to proceed with caution. Although we support most of the recommendations in the report, more needs to be done. The gap continues to widen between the warm words of the SNP on the drugs deaths scandal—

Meeting of the Parliament

National Drugs Mission

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

The gap continues to widen between the warm words of the SNP on the drugs deaths scandal and the reality of how little action it continues to take on the ground.

As I have said today, the Scottish Conservatives believe that a different approach is needed to help people who are suffering from addictions. The SNP Government must finally start listening to front-line experts and back our right to recovery bill, which would guarantee treatment for those most in need.

I move amendment S6M-07469.3, to leave out from “cross-government response” to end and insert:

“publication of the Scottish Drug Deaths Taskforce final report, Changing Lives; supports the transformational principles of treating problem drug use as any other health condition is treated, and ensuring that people with lived and living experience of problem drug use are included in the co-production of policy and strategy development in any area of government policy or delivery that affects them; recognises that cross-government planning and activity is needed to support the National Mission, and that this has resulted in over 80 actions; acknowledges the publication of the stigma action plan, which will play a vital role in the culture change required, and recognises the role of the Scottish Parliament in this regard; believes that, with commitment across government, the Parliament and beyond, it is possible to save lives and improve health and wellbeing; welcomes many of the report’s recommendations, including that individuals should never be turned away from treatment and therefore urges the Scottish Government to back Douglas Ross’s Proposed Right to Addiction Recovery (Scotland) Bill, which would enshrine in law a right to treatment, so that all people with addiction in Scotland can get the support they need; notes that the report states that ‘While we believe legislative change is required, more should—and can—be done in Scotland under current constitutional arrangements’; believes that the Scottish Government should accelerate its focus on tackling drug-related deaths until there is a meaningful and sustained downward trend in the number of drug-related deaths; regrets, therefore, the recent decision to cut the alcohol and drugs budget for 2022-23 by £1 million; notes, with disappointment, that the Scottish Government failed to introduce Medication Assisted Treatment standards by April 2022, and calls for urgent action to be taken to ensure standards 1-5 and 6-10 are fully implemented by April 2023 and April 2024, respectively.”

Meeting of the Parliament

National Drugs Mission

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

I would first like to mention, without seeming to be too confrontational to start with, that it was quite a challenge this week for us to look at a motion from the Government without the cross-Government response having been published in enough time for us to come together as a team. However, I welcome the fact that, following discussions that I had with the Government, we got sight of it, albeit that that was only yesterday. I want that on the record.

Consensus across the chamber is always key for this topic, but Conservative members often find that we are caught between a rock and a hard place. We wanted with all our hearts to fully back the Government motion, but members will note that we have lodged an amendment to it, albeit that it is quite subtle. I want that on the record, as well.

I welcome the inclusion of dentistry, education and housing, and reinforce that we welcome the report and the cross-Government response to that report.

Two basic principles have underpinned all the Scottish Drug Deaths Taskforce’s work. The first is that drug-related deaths are preventable and we must act now, and the second is that Scotland and the Scottish Government must focus on what can be done within the powers that are available.

The Scottish Drugs Deaths Taskforce published the report, “Changing Lives”, in July 2022. As I said, I welcome the chance to speak to it today. I met the chair, David Strang, at the time of its publication in the summer, and we had a very frank and positive discussion. We all want to reduce the tragic numbers that we face. It goes without saying that every single death that is brought about by misuse of drugs is a tragedy—not only for the victim, but for their families, friends and loved ones, and the communities in which they live.

More should, and could, be done on tackling drug-related deaths in Scotland

“until there is a meaningful and sustained downward trend in drug-related deaths.”

That is a quote from the report that we are welcoming. Something must change, and we can be that change. That is a specific recommendation from the DDTF report. We can be the chamber that unanimously stands together, puts politics to one side, says that enough is enough and ensures that we have meaningful and sustained action that will save lives.

Under the Scottish National Party, drug-related deaths have continued to get out of control. The current strategies to help people who are struggling with addiction have failed and are still failing—there are just not enough of them, or they are not being put in place fast enough where it matters, on the front line. Scotland still has the highest drug-related death rate in Europe, and the rate is 3.7 times higher than the rate in the United Kingdom as a whole. We cannot forget that.

As I have said, we all agree that every death is a tragedy. There can be no doubt that our drug deaths crisis continues to be an emergency, but saying that repeatedly here in the chamber, in reports and in press releases does not save lives. Real embedded change—societal change—and action will save lives.

I want to reinforce several recommendations in the “Changing Lives” report. It said that

“all people at high risk of drug-related harm”

should be

“proactively identified and offered support.”

It said that MAT standards should be fully implemented by May 2024, and it went on to say that

“Overarching treatment and recovery guidance, with defined and measurable standards, should be developed and implemented.”

According to the report, services need to co-ordinate better to ensure that every person is offered support, even after they leave a service. That relates to what Mr Marra said earlier about Tayside.

The report also says that drug users should be

“better supported when they leave prison than when they entered.”

I will highlight two of those points further: implementation of MAT standards and support for drug users on leaving prison. Support for drug users on leaving prison is vital, when we consider the fact that the number of prisoners who are caught with drugs in Scotland’s jails has increased by a staggering 1,100 per cent since Nicola Sturgeon became First Minister. Figures from the Scottish Prison Service reveal that in 2021-22, the number had soared to 1,832 instances. The number of deaths in Scottish prisons is also at a record high: in the past two years, at least 25 of them were the result of drug use.

The shocking level of drug use in Scotland’s prisons is unacceptable and is a damning indictment of the Scottish National Party’s soft-touch justice.

Meeting of the Parliament

National Drugs Mission

Meeting date: 12 January 2023

Sue Webber

You might recall that, when I was on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, we received some quite harrowing evidence from people in Dumfries, which is in your area, about some of the challenges that they faced at their pharmacies. What are your comments on that?