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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 June 2025
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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

There will be a division.

For

Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con)

Against

Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

Good morning, and welcome to the third meeting in 2024 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. The first and only item on our agenda this morning is day 1 of consideration of the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill at stage 2.

I welcome the Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise and her supporting officials to our meeting. I note that the officials who are seated at the table are here to support the minister but are unable to speak in the debates on the various amendments. Members should therefore direct all their comments or questions for the Scottish Government directly to the minister.

Before we begin in earnest, I will briefly explain the procedure that we will follow for everyone who is watching and perhaps for some in the room. The amendments that have been lodged to the bill have been grouped together and there will be one debate on each group of amendments. I will call the member who lodged the first amendment in each group to speak to and move that amendment and to speak to all the other amendments in the group. I will then call any other members who have lodged amendments in the group. Members who have not lodged amendments in the group but wish to speak should catch my attention. If Ms Don has not already spoken on the group, I will then invite her to contribute to the debate. The debate on the group will be concluded by my inviting the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up. Members should have this information on a sheet of paper as well.

Following the debate on each group, I will check whether the member who moved the first amendment in the group wishes to press it to a vote or to withdraw it. If they wish to press ahead, I will put the question on that amendment. If a member wishes to withdraw their amendment after it has been moved, they must seek the agreement of other members to do so. If any member who is present objects, the committee will immediately move to a vote on the amendment. I hope that you are all keeping up. If a member does not want to move their amendment when called, they should say, “Not moved.” Please note that any other member who is present may move such an amendment. If no one moves it, I will immediately call the next amendment on the marshalled list.

I remind everyone that only committee members—not substitute members, Mr Whitfield—are allowed to vote. Voting in any division is by show of hands. It is important that members keep their hands clearly raised until the clerk has recorded the vote.

The committee is required to indicate formally that it has considered and agreed each section of the bill, so I will put a question on each section at the appropriate point.

Now that we have covered the housekeeping matters, we can start the substantive business.

Before section 1

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

The next group of amendments is on “Children’s hearings system: rights and welfare issues for the child”. Amendment 165, in the name of Martin Whitfield, is grouped with amendments 167, 166, 170, 171, 119 to 121, 172, 177 and 182.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

You are clearly not allowed to take much of a breath, minister. [Laughter.]

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

There will be a division.

For

Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con)

Against

Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

The next group of amendments is on emergency placement in secure accommodation. Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is the only amendment in the group.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

I am not sure whether you want to respond further—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

The question is, that amendment 172 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

The result of the division is: For 4, Against 6, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 172 disagreed to.

Section 2 agreed to.

Section 3—Compulsory supervision orders: prohibitions

Amendments 4 and 5 not moved.

Section 3 agreed to.

After section 3

Amendment 173 moved—[Pam Duncan-Glancy].

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Sue Webber

The result of the division is: For 4, Against 6, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 173 disagreed to.

Amendment 6 not moved.

Section 4—Compulsory supervision orders: movement restriction conditions