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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 December 2025
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Displaying 2081 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

We are discussing almost the same questions about what freedom of information means that we were being asked 22 or 24 years ago, before the first legislation. You have summed it up nicely, Jill, in that there needs to be a balance.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

Absolutely.

Before I bring in Katy Clark, I have a couple of questions for you, minister, about the change in the technological field, even since we started scrutinising the bill and certainly over the past 20 years, particularly in relation to the AI applications that are available now. We are potentially entering an area where we can use AI to mine publicly available data or data that may exist in a public form in one organisation but not in others. If we are optimistic, that may take us strides forward in freedom of information and in what information is available.

I can think of cases about whether councils knew about potholes, for example. Responses to freedom of information requests suggested that the council knew about them only once in one department, whereas AI suggested that 20 different departments knew about the same pothole. Technology is making available information that is not connected up within organisations. What is your view about how we can encompass that in the changing world of FOI?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

It is an easy one to finish with.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

I have another question to ask before you move on from that, Ruth. One thing that has come up is the fact that the actual request can change in the 20-day period, which means that what is finally answered is sometimes very different from what was initially asked, partly because some information will have been delivered. How do you see the interaction between what are effectively new freedom of information requests arising in that period and the risk that the pause could be undermined because the request is treated as being new, which triggers a fresh 20-day period?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

But that sensitive information is already protected.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

It is for that exact reason that the committee is asking itself how, subject to the Parliament’s decision on the bill before us, we might future proof that situation in which a First Minister might use the veto. In that case, the only remedy for an individual would be, as Ross Grimley has said, to take the First Minister to court and have a judicial review of the process of using that veto, which might have been used because of, say, national security or any of the other exemptions.

This is one of the few areas of the bill where the responses that we have received have been overwhelmingly articulated in the same way, which is as follows: “This veto has existed from day 1, it has never been used, and we don’t think it is necessary.” The Scottish Government is making a statement to the people of Scotland that there is some information that, rightly and for extremely good reasons, cannot be disclosed, but the power is never going to sit just with the First Minister—there are layers before that.

I just wonder whether this brings us back to what we have been talking about with regard to the pause and people failing to get the information that they think they are entitled to or that they think exists. Is the Scottish Government actually the outlier? I understand the reasons behind the argument, but can I suggest that you think again—or at least consider the issue again?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

Absolutely. I am sorry, Ruth—you wanted to come in.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

And there is a value in freedom of information.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 22nd meeting in 2025 of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee.

I have received apologies from Emma Roddick. I welcome Rona Mackay, who attends as committee substitute. Good morning, Rona.

Our first item is an evidence-taking session on the Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. We are joined by Katy Clark MSP, who introduced the bill.

I welcome our witnesses. David Hamilton is the Scottish Information Commissioner, and Paul Mutch is deputy head of policy and information in the commissioner’s office. Good morning.

I will kick straight off with questions. I will come to you first, David, as commissioner.

In the spirit of a starter for 10, will you expand on why you think that reform of primary legislation is needed at this stage? That is a nice, easy opening question.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

That is fine.

I am going to jump about a bit and come to Jill McPherson regarding the listed public authorities. Is the review still on-going or has it concluded?