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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 July 2025
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Displaying 1808 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

Under agenda item 2, the committee will continue its stage 1 consideration of the Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill. I welcome the Minister for Parliamentary Business, Jamie Hepburn, and his supporting officials, Leila Brosnan, shadow bill team leader; Ailsa Kemp, Parliament and legislation unit team leader; and Jordan McGrory, a solicitor from the legal directorate. I also welcome Graham Simpson, the member in charge of the bill. Minister, I invite you to make some opening comments.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

That is fine—very sensible. I am coming to the end of my questions—I hope that you will be disappointed to learn that, but I fear that you will not.

The regional rules are much more explicit than the constituency rules. They are far easier to understand, because we have to group entire constituencies into the regions. Sue Webber prompted a discussion earlier about the challenge that then comes for local authorities, where part of a local authority area is in one region and the rest of it is in another region. That adds to my previous point about one MSP representing a constituency in three different local authority areas, because we could have up to 15 other MSPs interested in an issue. From a purely administrative, common-sense point of view, that is a very big round table to bring together to discuss problems—let me put it that way.

Do you have any comments on the consequences of the choices that are made by Boundaries Scotland? The effect on local authorities is not part of your tests—you need not take account of that if you follow the four rules—but are you conscious of that effect and do you have any concerns about it?

14:00  

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

Here is a strange question that I do not know the answer to. When you are considering that, do you think only of the constituency MSP, or does the availability of list MSPs—even though they have not been identified at the point—feed into the “inconveniences” category?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

So they were separate decisions rather than what people perceived, which was that, because the South Scotland numbers were low, you needed something to go in it to get the numbers up—or, indeed, the other way around.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

I will ask my final questions. You are undertaking a lessons learned exercise, which will fill a huge amount of your time. In that exercise, will you consider how to preserve the institutional memory of the challenges that have happened? To put it politely, I think that the institutional memory from the earlier boundary changes was possibly lost. I am not saying that it was a whole new learning curve—absolutely not, because I know that huge amounts of work went into the process. However, the question is how you capture and preserve the lessons learned so that, next time, the process runs even more smoothly and successfully, with a better understanding from the electorate of what is happening.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

The digitised boundaries that fit in—absolutely.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

Putting automaticity to one side, would you like to see anything change before the next go around this circle, particularly with regard to the Holyrood boundaries? Given that we have eight years—who knows—what would your wish list be?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

I thank you very much for coming in and giving evidence; we will now move into private to consider it. Thank you for sharing so fully the journey of the current boundary reviews, which I hope that we are coming to the end of.

14:12 Meeting continued in private until 14:25.  

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

I am grateful for those remarks, minister, and I sincerely hope that all elected individuals will echo a great deal of what you said about the importance of transparency and being held properly to account. Therefore, we will hold you to account—I hand over to Emma Roddick, who has the first set of questions.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Martin Whitfield

I will pursue that point a little further. The recent by-election, which had to take place for a sad reason, happened on the basis of the first-past-the-post system that we have in Scotland. Although the effect of proportionality on the regional list would be the same percentage wise—we are talking about one member being replaced—what is the Scottish Government’s view about the inherent risk of instability because of that?

Some witnesses have given evidence that suggests that the process of replacing the member might become more of a comment on the Government, parties and other events, rather than on what the Scottish Government says, which is that it should be focused on the conduct occasioned by the individual member. Does the Scottish Government have any concerns about the question shifting from an individual MSP? It depends on how the public votes, which is relatively straightforward in a constituency because it is the individual who is elected, but in the regional list, where it is a party vote, is the Government concerned about that affecting proportionality?