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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 1169 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

It has been highlighted a lot in the evidence that we have received. I will come on to that in a wee minute, but it looks as if it needs to be examined in great detail.

The Scottish ministers can also direct HMICS to undertake research or inspection activity in relation to any aspect of policing in Scotland. Have you directed HMICS to look at any aspects of police regulations or conduct procedures?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

Do you know of any direction that has been given to HMICS to look into any of the policies and procedures of Police Scotland?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

That is what I am saying: a lot of that work would fix some of the problems that we have had with the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

I will go back to the previous question. I am still quite confused about what we need secondary legislation for and what can just be put into terms and conditions of employment with the police. Is any of the bill needed in order to update and modernise the policy, procedures and regulations of Police Scotland or can it do that outwith the bill?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

On some of the things that we have heard from Police Scotland, I asked last week:

“In the interests of everybody who wants quick resolutions to their problems ... do we need to get that in the bill right now, instead of having to wait for secondary legislation?”

The answer from Deputy Chief Constable Speirs was:

“That would be my ask of the committee.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 22 May 2024; c 41.]

Therefore, I wonder whether it would speed things up for the victims and for the people who are the subject of the allegations of a complaint to bring the secondary legislation in more quickly. There was an example of a case of someone who has now been suspended for three years. Will anything in the bill speed up that process? I wonder how much communication you would have with a victim who wants something to be done with regard to a police officer who is still on full pay in a case that has been on-going for three years and is lost somewhere in the justice system. I cannot imagine that that victim will get a regular phone call, when it has taken three years to deal with it. That is where they feel let down.

Also, we are talking about the public purse and the fact that finances are finite, so is there anything in the bill that will solve that situation?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

Police Scotland felt that a lot of what was holding it back related to the fact that many of the regulations were out of date. We have heard that in our evidence, and you will have heard that in your regular meetings. Has anyone been given an instruction to look at and update the current policies, procedures and regulations?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

Are you surprised that the PIRC has not sent any policies to HMICS to review?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

It seems that, as the issue has been highlighted quite a few times in our evidence, ministers might want to direct a review.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

David Kennedy of the Scottish Police Federation told us that, in England and Wales, a lot of Lady Elish Angiolini’s

“recommendations are getting turned back. They are now reversing what she recommended, because they have realised that a lot of it does not work.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 8 May 2024; c 47.]

A number of non-legislative recommendations have been implemented. From our evidence, a lot of improvements seem to have been made, and there have been a lot of positive comments. Has anyone done a full review of the impact and benefits that are now in place, rather than pushing ahead with the legislative recommendations? Has anyone reviewed the comments that David Kennedy made about England and Wales to see what the issues were and whether it is still worth going ahead with the legislative process?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

I am sticking with the theme of regulations. The Scottish Police Federation told us that the current performance regulations, which came in alongside the conduct regulations in 2014, have never been used. That was disputed by Police Scotland. Deputy Chief Constable Speirs said:

“the conduct regulations were introduced in 2014. Now we are in 2024, they are not fit for purpose, and a number of gaps are restricting our progress, such as the inability to fast track a process; equity or parity of voice at conduct hearings; our inability to proceed without delay, as we have to wait for criminal proceedings to be completed”

and a few other things.

When asked if we needed to get those things into the bill now, instead of having to wait for secondary legislation, he said:

“That would be my ask of the committee.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 22 May 2024; c 41.]