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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 24 October 2025
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Displaying 975 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

I have a couple of specific questions about the measures. You referred to the fact that the Government takes advice from the chief medical officer on protecting public health, and the regulations will flow from that. In relation to education and educational establishments in particular, there does not appear to be any requirement in the bill for any assessment to take place of the impact of an instrument made under the powers that may be exercised through the made affirmative procedure. Do you agree that it is important that those affected understand the impact of the regulations and that the information is accessible, clear and published in a timely manner? Would you consider amending the bill so that a requirement for such a process is included in it?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

Nor is shutting an educational boarding facility.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

Logic dictates one or the other. Either you want a statute book that gives you the capacity to do such things in certain defined circumstances or you do not. Mr Simpson and I are challenging the whole nature of the bill, because you are effectively passing into law certain powers that you would like to keep in the future—you tell us that you require them—and others that you say you are happy to let fall in 2025. By your own logic, you would surely want to keep in place the capacity to release prisoners.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

If your first priority is to safeguard the public, including those who are in prison, surely you would want to keep that power on the statute book to utilise at some point in the future.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

I am not sure that I necessarily follow the logic of that position.

Mr Simpson referred to the measures on private sector tenancies. The draft strategy consultation paper “A New Deal for Tenants” is out for consultation until 15 April 2022. I am slightly at a loss in working out why provisions that effectively pre-empt that consultation are included in the bill. Would it not be far better to remove those provisions from the bill and include them in future housing legislation, so that you can be cognisant of the consultation responses?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

Are you saying that it is politically unpalatable to extend the legislation beyond those points?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

I have two or three general questions before I go on to specific questions on the delegated measures. The bill will be on the statute book beyond the present Government’s time and, although I would not want to question this Government’s character or motivations, we are giving future Governments considerable powers. A lot of that rests on the definition of a public health emergency or threat. We know about Covid, but will you give us other examples of where a public health emergency or threat might arise?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

Do you accept that it is difficult to legislate on a Donald Rumsfeld approach of known knowns and known unknowns? There has to be some specificity, so is there more that you could do in the bill to flesh out what you mean by a public health emergency or threat? It could otherwise be open to misinterpretation by future Administrations.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

The Parliament will do that, but the courts might also scrutinise the legislation or the implementation or enactment of that legislation at some point.

What seems to distinguish the bill and the measures that it would effect is that we are passing it into law on a permanent basis. We could have tried to challenge many of the measures that have been brought in during the pandemic, but article 15 of the European convention on human rights gave you the safeguard and the certainty that the measures could not be challenged, because it says that Governments can act

“in exceptional circumstances ... in a limited and supervised manner,”

free

“from their obligations to secure certain rights and freedoms under the Convention.”

One element is the “limited and supervised” aspect, but passing the bill as permanent legislation will mean that you lose the time-limited element. Are you certain that article 15 would give safeguards if the bill was passed into law?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Craig Hoy

The measures in the bill on early release from prison and young offenders institutions are exceptional because they specifically relate to Covid and they are time limited. I go back to your opening remarks. If you want a statute that is fit for purpose, why would you not want to have the capacity to release prisoners early in another pandemic situation, or beyond 2025?