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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 September 2025
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Displaying 917 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Okay, just on that point, you said that the meeting was on 31 May 2017. In November 2017, the First Minister came to the yard to launch MV Glen Sannox. That launch was as fake as the painted-on windows, was it not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Whose idea was it for the First Minister to come along and have a great razzmatazz photo call around that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Just to be certain, you say that you proposed a solution that could potentially have saved the taxpayer about £50 million?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Can you tell us a bit about the nature of that meeting? What did you ask the First Minister to do and what did she undertake to do?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Craig Hoy

If the procurement process was not bungled, would you concede that it was rushed? One of the suggestions from the FMEL side is that it was rushed because the First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, was preparing for her first party conference and that the Government wanted to get the announcement out

“just before George Osbourne announced a £500m investment in Faslane.”

Did anyone in the Government or Transport Scotland question why the timetable was being so rushed?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Perhaps Mo Rooney might want to come in on this point. A big contractual change took place in terms of where the risks for the project lay. Earlier in the meeting, in an exchange with Sharon Dowey, Ms Rooney said:

“This is certainly not a blank cheque, if that is what is being suggested. Ministers have been really clear with the board, the management team and the workforce that these vessels need to be delivered within the budget that has been allocated. Each organisation—Ferguson’s and CMAL—and each part of the Scottish Government that is involved in this all share the obligation to deliver as efficiently as possible, with an eye to value for money. There is no blank cheque.”

That is the account that you gave the committee earlier, Ms Rooney. However, paragraph 105 of the Auditor General’s report says that, as part of the new contract arrangements,

“The Scottish Government is committed to paying”

—in full—FMPG’s additional vessel costs,

”regardless of the final price.”

That is a blank cheque, is it not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Craig Hoy

And if they should be, for example, another £50 million over budget, who will pay for that? Where will that money come from?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Is there still the possibility that you could pull the plug on the two vessels?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Good morning, everyone. I want to go back to a question that I would have asked Roy Brannen had he been here. When you were last before us, I asked Mr Brannen whether CMAL had been overruled or whether there was a threat to overrule it, and he said explicitly that that was not the case. However, in a submission from the senior management team at FMEL, they suggest that some degree of overruling took place.

I will quote from that submission at some length, just for context. It states:

“Our chairman met with the cabinet secretary for finance Derek Mackay on the 5th of June 2018 to insist that the Scottish Government intervene to instruct CMAL to take part in an Expert Determination Process”.

The chairman was told explicitly that the Government would not do so. The submission continues:

“Derek Mackay told him that he could not do this because ministers had received a legal letter from the CMAL Board, threatening to resign en masse, if the government interfered with them, as an independent board. Derek Mackay said that this would be politically very damaging for the government, and he could not intervene.”

Mr McColl says that the reason that the Government was not prepared to intervene at that stage was that

“The government had forced CMAL to place the order with Ferguson against their will. We were not aware at the time of the strength of opposition from CMAL to placing the order with Ferguson. Had we known this at the time it would have caused us to seriously question accepting the order.”

Why does Mr McColl believe that CMAL was overruled? Is he misrepresenting, misrecollecting or providing a misleading account of the situation?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Craig Hoy

But it is still taxpayers’ money. The vessels are currently five and a half years late and at least £250 million over budget. Where might this end up?