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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 July 2025
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Displaying 893 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s economy: supporting businesses through the Covid-19 pandemic”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Craig Hoy

On fraud and error, in certain defined circumstances it might be quite difficult to assess whether a fraudulent claim was made or somebody was simply misinterpreting the rules. For example, the principle is that the ratepayer applies for small business support funding. I heard an example where somebody who was subletting within a broader unit made a claim and then the ratepayer, who was also operating from that unit, made a claim, only to find that the person to whom he sublet some space had got there before him. In those circumstances, it would be difficult to say whether that was fraud or error. Where there are clear-cut cases of fraud, you said that by logic there should be recovery action. Do you have any assessment of how much of that £16 to £32 million will, in effect, be error? In those circumstances, should there be recovery action or will some kind of complex repayment process have to be undertaken?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Social security: Progress on implementing the devolved benefits”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Craig Hoy

We note that, as a result of the Covid pandemic, some degree of prioritisation has been entered into and some of the more complex benefits are due to be delivered at pace over the coming years, including the adult disability payment. Do you believe that the current timetable, which is in exhibit 1, represents a sustainable pace of change? Do you think that it makes sufficient allowance for unforeseen circumstances or for competing priorities, such as the creation of a national care service? Is the timescale credible, or do you think that we will have to perhaps build in time for further delays?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Social security: Progress on implementing the devolved benefits”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Craig Hoy

One of the benefits that were introduced despite the Covid pandemic was the child disability payment, which was rolled out nationally in November 2021, following a pilot in three local authority areas. Your report states that the pilot provided a limited opportunity to test aspects of the benefit and that data collection was still being developed during the pilot process. What were the risks of the Government launching the pilot without sufficient testing and how has that impacted data collection? Are you confident that the current data collection system are fit for purpose?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s economy: supporting businesses through the Covid-19 pandemic”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Mr McLauchlan, you referred to the data cleansing exercise that is being undertaken and that will obviously include local authorities, too. That process will be vital to ensure that we have accurate and complete data. Is it possible to tell us more about what the process entails? Are there any risks in relation to the quality or the completeness of the data that we might get from different local authorities? Is it very dependent upon those processes within individual authorities?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

I was going to turn to that because it strikes me that, alongside all the technical issues here, there has been a political dynamic to rush this at various points for different reasons. You said in your submission:

“There was clearly a great pressure on the timing of the announcement that it was going to FMEL and there was a high probability the pressure was also on CMAL to rush the invitation to tender.”

Has there been a political driving force throughout this as well, do you think?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Mr McColl, you mentioned in your opening statement that some of your former colleagues could not attend because they are subject to gagging orders. I am not sure that we need to go into their names, but can you say to what kinds of roles those gagging orders applied? Were you involved in a gagging order at any stage and have you been released from one?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Okay, just on that point, you said that the meeting was on 31 May 2017. In November 2017, the First Minister came to the yard to launch MV Glen Sannox. That launch was as fake as the painted-on windows, was it not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Whose idea was it for the First Minister to come along and have a great razzmatazz photo call around that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Just to be certain, you say that you proposed a solution that could potentially have saved the taxpayer about £50 million?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Craig Hoy

The First Minister said to the Parliament that if a Government gagging order applied to any of those individuals it would be lifted so that they could fully participate in an inquiry. Is it your understanding that those gagging orders are Government-imposed gagging orders?