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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Current session: 14 May 2026 to 2 November 2026
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Displaying 146 contributions

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Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

On that point, Chirsty, Governments have to make tough choices. If a Government were to preserve the current trajectory of social security expenditure and cut, say, housing, health and potentially employability instead, could you foresee a situation in which we did not manage to have that step change and get people off benefits and into work or a more routine daily life—which, I presume, is what everybody around the table wants to happen?

Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

There is a lot to come back on there, but I will bring in Craig Smith and then Chirsty McFadyen on the original question before I bring in my colleague Thomas Kerr.

Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

Diagnosis would not necessarily determine eligibility, but why should a formal diagnosis not be part of pre-eligibility screening, so that someone could not simply enter the system with a self-diagnosis, for example? There are concerns that people are, in effect, self-diagnosing or self-declaring, and it is then possible for those who criticise the system to say that there are people in the system who should not be in it, because they do not have a formal diagnosis.

Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

Who wants to go first? Dr Ryan?

Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

Thank you. Craig Smith, I see that you are nodding in agreement.

Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

With a process as large as restructuring the health boards—which could present an issue in relation to social security expenditure, if, for example, treatment pathways are not there—should we realistically expect the Government to start putting pounds, shillings and pence numbers against the programme, rather than simply saying, “We’re doing it because we need structural reform”?

Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

Okay. I call Morven-May MacCallum.

Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

After our brief suspension, I am pleased to welcome to the meeting our second panel of three witnesses on pre-budget scrutiny of disability benefit spending. Joining us virtually is Edel Harris OBE, chair of the independent review of adult disability payment. We are joined in person by Chirsty McFadyen, knowledge exchange fellow at the Scottish Health Equity Research Unit, and Craig Smith, public affairs and policy manager at Scottish Action for Mental Health. I thank our witnesses for joining us today.

I am sure that you heard about the parameters of our discussion in the previous session. In this session, we will probably go more into the policy-related detail and bring in lived experience, but I want to kick off by putting on the record a quote from Sir Tony Blair. In relation to mental health, which we should bear in mind represents a growing and significant proportion of the claims for adult disability payment, Sir Tony said:

“We need a proper public conversation about this because you really cannot afford to be spending the amount of money we’re spending on mental health”.

He also said:

“I think we have been very, very focused on mental health with people self-diagnosing … We’re spending vastly more on mental health now than we did a few years ago, and it’s hard to see what the objective reasons for that are … the ramp up of that just in these last few years has been dramatic.”

Sir Tony was criticised by some stakeholders for those remarks and for a report prepared by his institute, but I think that it chimes with a growing body of public opinion—I mentioned a YouGov poll earlier—that is questioning the levels of expenditure on social security, particularly disability benefits.

I will bring in Edel Harris, first, to respond to those remarks and to set the scene. Why has the number of disability benefit claimants risen and to what extent do we know the causes of that increase or of any potential remedies to reduce expenditure—or, at least, to arrest the increase—if such knowledge is, indeed, desirable and achievable?

Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

How concerned should we be that spending on ADP and PIP—or on disability benefits, if we want to use a generic term—is still rising year on year? With a finite budget or, in the Scottish Government’s case, a fixed budget, there is the capacity to spend that money only through tax rises or cuts in other areas of expenditure. In the past, those cuts have been made in areas in which spending could, arguably, bring down poverty—for example, housing and employability. What is the risk to both Governments if they cannot reduce the percentage of the overall budget that is spent on social security, specifically disability benefits?

Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 23 September 2026

Craig Hoy

Hannah Randolph, have you any comments on that?