Chamber and committees

The minister raised the issue of mandatory consultation, which is important. Does she agree that the quality of that consultation is extremely important? Will she support the Save our Mearns petition on that point?

Good morning, minister. You said that you have a number of avenues. How will the Scottish Government work with the UK Government on the matter?

We know that the SNP Government has form for legislating outwith the Scottish Parliament’s competence. [Interruption.] Members should just look at the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. However, as Monica Lennon highlighted, the Supreme Court judgment in Northern Ireland demonstrates that the approach has already been tested. As we have heard, Scotland is the last part of the UK to implement buffer zones, so it is right that these measures progress with close scrutiny. I heard groans from across the chamber, but that is a fact.

We welcome the committee’s recommendation that post-legislative scrutiny will be key to the continued operation of the legislation once it completes its parliamentary passage. It is important that a review should be built into the bill.

To ensure robust and proportionate law, two further areas of the bill will require consideration, the first of which is the size of the buffer zone. At 200m, it is 50m bigger than the English equivalent. I welcome the minister’s commitment to reflect on whether that is proportionate.

The second area, as Sandesh Gulhane and Ruth Maguire highlighted, is the bill’s impact on silent prayer. Committee members discussed that at length. The key points include the human rights implications of policing silent prayer and the feasibility of enforcement. The stage 1 report reflects the differences of opinion that emerged on that issue, and we will certainly need to return to that at stage 2.

In closing—

It nevertheless remains the case that women should not feel that they are being stigmatised or discouraged from accessing abortion services. Fear of judgment or intimidation should not act as a barrier to reproductive healthcare.

The Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill achieved cross-party consensus in the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. I thank the committee’s convener and clerks, as well as the Scottish Parliament information centre, for their sensitive and careful handling of the bill as members heard evidence on its provisions. I also thank the stakeholders and witnesses who contributed to the committee’s scrutiny of the bill at stage 1.

Women must not be harassed or intimidated for exercising their legal right to freely access abortion services, nor for accessing other reproductive health services that are delivered on the same premises. The same goes for NHS staff, who must not be targeted simply for doing their jobs and providing women with the care that they need. As we have heard in the debate, the UK Parliament voted in favour of the Public Order Act 2023, which establishes buffer zones of 150m in England and Wales.

As my colleagues Meghan Gallacher, Dr Sandesh Gulhane and Annie Wells have confirmed, the Scottish Conservatives will support the general principles of Gillian Mackay’s abortion buffer zone bill at decision time. In doing so, however, we recognise that this is a difficult and complex topic. We also recognise that parliamentarians are increasingly making decisions about the balance of rights—in this case, the right to access healthcare and the right to protest.

As we have heard in the debate, those are not easy decisions. Against the background of the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021, some members are understandably concerned about the precedent that the bill could set in relation to protest. Perhaps that should give the Scottish National Party pause to reflect on its policy agenda to date. However, the Law Society of Scotland does not believe that the bill is a slippery slope to curtailing the right to protest in different circumstances. The legislation is narrowly drawn, and the committee was reassured that any similar prohibition would require separate primary legislation and parliamentary scrutiny.

As a staunch advocate of free speech, I also recognise the rights of women who face an often challenging, personal and extremely private decision. They have a right to access reproductive healthcare unimpeded by protests, however peaceful those protests may be. They also have a right to privacy. Those rights should not be overlooked or ignored.

As Meghan Gallacher highlighted, it is a very sad fact that women fight every single day for their rights to be upheld.

Good morning. I thank the committee for its consideration of the petition.

I have been deeply moved by Maggie Reid’s campaign to improve perinatal mental health services in Scotland. The campaign began because of the horrendous experience of her sister, Lesley. Maggie and Lesley could not make it today, but they are watching, and this is what they wanted to say to you.

Lesley wants you to know:

“Having been admitted to both a MBU and an adult mental health unit, in my experience the environments and care are miles apart. From what I experienced the adult mental health unit was a horrible environment for someone with my condition. I was one of 2 females on a male dominant ward which made for intimidating and difficult conditions.

Although I can understand why I was ‘locked up’ and separated from my family, in the MBU the environment was softer and I had a focus as I had my baby with me.”

This is from Lesley’s sister, Maggie, who submitted the petition:

“After experiencing Lesley’s terrible care when she was sectioned it made me want to make a change so that it did not happen to anyone else.

It disappoints me and frustrates me how little the government has done to support the petition I put in. I keep asking myself the same question how many more women need to become so unwell that they need the system which fails them or how many more sadly die from being so ill. It is all over the newspaper just now regarding women’s mental health and suicides”

so

“why are you not acting faster”?

To date, we have heard warm words from the Scottish Government about establishing a mother and baby unit in the north-east, but national health service building projects have now been put on hold for up to two years.

A key message from organisations such as the Maternal Mental Health Alliance is that the changes are so desperately needed. Suicide is the leading cause of death for new mothers. One in four mothers develop a mental health issue as a result of pregnancy or childbirth, and many of those women are being failed every day, with a postcode lottery in service provision.

I urge the committee, on behalf of Lesley and her sister Maggie, to hold the Scottish Government to account on those issues and to help Maggie to secure the urgent change that she is hoping for.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I do have a suggestion—thank you, convener.

I will mention two things. First, you said earlier that you would take the First Minister a list of petitions that the committee feels are very important. I ask whether PE2017 could be included in that list.

Secondly, I asked representatives of NHS Grampian, at their most recent meeting with us, if it could consider ensuring that design for the purposes discussed could be included in its architects’ drawings when the new hospital goes ahead and is built. If that could be included, that would be welcome.

Earlier, you said that the MUP will impact all drinkers. However, it will hit social drinkers, in particular, in their shopping basket. Rather than the MUP targeting harmful drinking, it will hit everybody in the social drinker group.