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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 July 2025
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Displaying 1648 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

Thank you. I might come back to you to pick up on a couple of points.

I turn to Jamie Whittle, who has experience as the person who guides these cases through for so many. On the barriers that we have been talking about and, I suppose, the lack of awareness upstream and the lack of a process to support communities, where does the problem start with access to justice, and environmental justice in particular?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

You spoke about the importance of getting things right not only at the sharp end of the court system. The convention talks about the need to improve environmental democracy. On access to justice, there are costs associated with court proceedings, but legal aid and other support mechanisms start—or should start—much earlier in the process. What have you seen eroded in those upstream processes during the last years that has entrenched non-compliance?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

I have a question for Mark Roberts, which follows on from Evelyn Tweed’s question earlier. I appreciate that most of our focus this morning has been on the court end of access to justice. However, in your work in ESS, how much time and capacity do you have to consider compliance in relation to ensuring that the public have access to environmental information and to ensuring that they have the participation access rights? How do you assess those elements rather than the sharp end—the “things have now gone wrong” end—that we need to deal with?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

Okay. I understand that you are waiting for that report. Would there be any value in being pre-emptive? Can you be pre-emptive? Is there a mechanism where you can say, “We can see the absence of access to rights and the absence of mechanisms for remedy, and we will step in now,” or do we have to wait for the review process?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. Does anyone else want to come in on that point?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

That is fine. I suppose that my question is about what the mechanisms are, if concerns are raised. I appreciate that now might not be the time to open that up.

I will move on to another question, which I know that other members also want to come in on. Is it possible for Scotland to fully comply with the access to justice requirements in the convention without legal aid reform?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

However, the point is about concerns, for example, that not enough people are aware. I accept that the SCJC is independent and has a statutory set up. However, is its remit clear enough, or broad enough, to ensure that there is that wide engagement with people?

I appreciate what the minister said about the focus and interest, in relation to the pillars of the Aarhus convention, being primarily around access to justice. However, there is also something about awareness and participation. In that respect, is the SCJC constrained by statute, or is the minister of the view that it could do what the ERCS and others say that it should be doing?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

You think that it is possible, even without the repeal of regulation 15 around the joint interest test.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

Okay—so there is scope for discussion. I suppose that my point is that you see that there is a problem with the way in which things are set up at the moment, because if there is a broader interest, one individual alone might not be able to take the case forward.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

There is also the extension of the inability in terms of access to justice at all those levels. Can you tell us about the impact on community groups and local neighbourhoods of the failures in the system and of failures to access justice in relation to health and community cohesion—the things that make us human?