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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 February 2026
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Displaying 1840 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Is there also a role for political leadership in this area? How do you see the political context of debates and discussions around race feeding into that? What should we, as parliamentarians, you, as the EHRC, and all of us who have an interest in and a responsibility with regard to the notion of fostering good relations be doing differently?

10:45

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Thank you. Given that we were talking about SFC matters, I should declare an interest: I am the rector of the University of Dundee,

My next question will cover an issue that you were hinting at there. If we take the notion of how we understand and promote fostering good relations as a tool, how could the Government and local authorities better incorporate it into budget conversations—that is, not only in budget decisions but in all the conversations that lead up to those decisions?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. I want to focus on balancing characteristics and fostering good relations. It has been a bugbear of mine for some years that there has been limited understanding of, and virtually no conversation about, what fostering good relations means, and you have picked up on that. It has been very much the poor cousin of the various elements of the public sector equality duty. Why do you think that it is so hard for public bodies to grasp what fostering good relations means and what such a process should look like? In your view, what would good practice look like when it comes to fostering good relations?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

I will come to the guidance in a moment, but when you talk about confidence, do you mean confidence in doing something or confidence in understanding what fostering good relations means? I think that those are two different things, and I see weaknesses in both. Which are you referring to?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Jennifer, do you want to come in?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Do you get a sense from any of your conversations with Police Scotland, either as part of the uniformed services project or elsewhere, that the notion of balancing needs—as opposed to risks—is sometimes used as an excuse to do nothing?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Can you give us more of a flavour of some of those projects might be, or is it too early to say? One challenge is that the Government says, “We’ve got this money for community cohesion”, but people on the ground wonder what it actually means for them, especially if they live in situations where there is conflict and tension and they feel powerless to resolve it.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

I appreciate that the examples that you have given are indicative and that you have not given an exhaustive list. However, one of my concerns is that, although such work is very valuable and important, people need to opt in, so there is a challenge in how we get those resources and have those conservations in communities that do not want to know about those things. In such communities, there might have been generations of disenfranchisement—there could have been a series of situations that have led people to think that nothing good can come from engaging with the state in a meaningful way.

How can we tackle the structural barriers that prevent the fostering of good relations? We can say that we will have a knit and natter group, for example, but the people who need such groups will not necessarily be the ones who come to them. How can we ensure that it is not just a case of opting in and including people who are already interested in being in these kinds of spaces and having these kinds of conversations?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Do I have time to ask one last question, convener?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

John, you mentioned the police taking a fostering good relations approach in managing different situations in which race, ethnicity and other characteristics in that space are causing flashpoints in communities. Has the EHRC had any conversations with Police Scotland about that? Can you give us a bit more detail? Many communities and many people across Scotland are greatly frustrated by the rising levels of hate, whereby people of colour are being targeted on the streets and the police are doing nothing about it, or are seen to do nothing about it. Can you shed any light on the work that you have done with the police on those issues?