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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 1648 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you, Rohini. Vic, will you comment on fostering good relations? Where do you see the barriers and the opportunities? Is any work happening in that area?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is pretty stark and, arguably, pretty damning, given how long the duties have been in place.

On the second and third needs, I take the point about “advancing equality” being lesser, but do both “advancing equality” and “fostering good relations” need to become much more prominent in the Scottish Government’s work on current and future reviews and the public sector equality duty, given the level of hate crime, the rise of the far right and the undermining of equality and diversity work that is happening across the board and not just in Scotland? Does there need to be more focus on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

I will shift the focus a bit. We have talked quite a lot about the process and the mechanics of the duty and about issues around how the duty is used to identify and deal with inequality and discrimination. The third need in the public sector equality duty, which I think is often overlooked or ignored, is the need to foster good relations. I am interested in the views from each of you on how that need is understood and interpreted. Do you have examples of how that need is used as a tool or mechanism for good practice for fostering good relations? I will start with Alyia Zaheed.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is really helpful. You spoke about the need to take a more coherent view, which chimes with the earlier panel’s remarks about harmonising things. Do you think that the Scottish Government’s proposed changes go far enough? Is there enough in them to deliver the kind of transformation that you would like to see, or give you what you need in order to deliver the outcomes that you want?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful, and quite a strong steer for us in considering how we support the changes, so thank you for that.

Nicky—I will ask you the same initial question. In what ways is the PSED not strong enough or falling down in its operation, practice and understanding, given that we are seeing increasing inequalities, both between and within protected characteristics groups in Scotland?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

I want to shift focus and look at the three needs covered in the general duty. The third need—fostering good relations—is, I think, often ignored, seen as less important or is just talked about less. It is certainly our understanding that there is a lot of focus on equality and discrimination, but the fostering of good relations can get missed out.

Perhaps I can start with you, John. How can we talk about fostering good relations in a way that makes sense to people? What work does PHS do on the third need, not only to develop good relations, but to support others in doing the same?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. In some ways, it is good to hear you say that you do not see the issue as being sidelined or forgotten. That might vary across the country, but that is helpful. I ask Andrew Groundwater the same question.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is fine—thanks, Andrew.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

It is interesting that there are explicit requirements in relation to gender, such as the publication of gender pay gap reports. Do you think that that has helped to nudge progress on gender? Would similar equivalent metrics that make the public sector do certain things for certain protected characteristics help in other areas in which there are widening inequalities?