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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 July 2025
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Displaying 1648 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

I would like to bring in Naomi McAuliffe on that and on whether Amnesty has examples or evidence from elsewhere where self-identification is part of the gender recognition process. Have significant numbers of people detransitioned? What have the support processes been, and what issues do we need to consider, given that, as Catherine Murphy said, the numbers are very small? They are lower than the number of people who choose to get divorced, for example.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Naomi, in relation to some of the issues around gender dysphoria, is there any need for the kind of medical gatekeeping that we heard about this morning?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Catherine, we have heard from previous witnesses that not all trans people will have gender dysphoria and that it is not a feature of all trans people’s experiences of their identity. In Engender’s policy and advocacy work, have there been discussions or have you engaged with people who have had a clear problematic relationship with medicalisation and with maintaining such a diagnosis and the psychiatric assessments that go along with it in any gender identity process?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Sandy, your statement was very clearly along the same lines as those of Rape Crisis Scotland’s member organisations. The network has been trans-inclusive for 15 years and is operating without an issue. Can you say a bit more about how you have dealt with the medicalisation of trans identity if it has come up in services that either you or Rape Crisis Scotland network members have experienced?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, panel, and thank you for joining us. Thank you, too, for your opening statements and the evidence that you submitted in advance.

I am interested in exploring a couple of areas, but I want first to pick up on the issue of gender dysphoria and the bill’s removal of the requirement for such a diagnosis. With regard to the discussion on whether gender dysphoria is a mental illness—the World Health Organization and the United Nations have made it quite clear that it is not—can you say a little bit about the evidence or, in your view, the lack of evidence on gender dysphoria?

I ask Lucy Hunter Blackburn to start.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Sorry, but I want Susan to answer the question, given that she raised the issue in her evidence.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

But sexual health is different from mental disorder.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Malcolm Clark, you also mentioned the need to retain the concept of gender dysphoria.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Can I just clarify that you do not consider the current process to be demeaning and intrusive?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Actually, my question is on 16 and 17-year-olds. Susan Smith and Lucy Hunter Blackburn, you both referred to the Scottish sentencing guidelines, in which there is a distinction for under-25s. Are you therefore suggesting that the age for obtaining a GRC should be raised to 25? Please give a yes-or-no answer, because of time.