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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 December 2025
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Displaying 2953 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

The committee has heard concerns that defining the responsibility of individuals in relation to the corresponding type of organisation could leave scope for non-senior staff—middle managers, for example—to be prosecuted. Do you think that that is right?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

However, if a contracting company was acting in a way that was—I will stay away from the word “negligent”—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

Yes. Therefore, the responsibility would rest with the contracting company. Maybe, if the contractor had gone a bit rogue, the contractor would be responsible.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

So you think that that is covered.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

Thank you.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

Yes, I have. I want to pick up on your last point, cabinet secretary. Were you suggesting that, if ecocide could not be proved in court, a prosecution could be achieved using the 2014 act?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

I am trying to think how such a provision would work. The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service might decide to go down the ecocide route to take a case to court, but, during the trial, it might think, “We’re not going to meet the high bar for ecocide,” and decide to switch to a section 40 prosecution. Is that what you are saying? In other words, are you talking about making it possible for someone to be found not guilty of ecocide but then to be retried under section 40 of the 2014 act?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

No. I mentioned consent or connivance.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

Yes, and I suggested that neglect should be added.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

If a contracting company was not following proper procedures and then caused an incident, where would the buck stop?