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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 July 2025
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Displaying 2620 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

That leads me to my next point. There will be a choice for local authorities, because the statutory duty will move away from them on to the Scottish Government. As Mr Mason said, provision often costs more than local authorities actually take in, and local authorities could, if they wish, say, “Well, we don’t want to provide this service any more—over to you, national care service; you can buy this building if you want.” Would that be right?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

I have one other slight question. Some local authorities have arm’s-length external organisations providing care. I guess that, in future, it would have to be decided whether an ALEO would remain part of the local authority or whether it would potentially move across to the national care service, or continue to provide care as a provider. Is that right?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

As a final final point—sorry, convener—I think that you mentioned earlier that boards might differ in how they provide service. I am not sure whether that is what you said.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

The national care service should go hand in hand with that review, should it not?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

Therefore the statutory duty would remain with local authorities.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

That leaves Aberdeen City Council and Scottish Borders Council as the only two authorities that use an ALEO to provide care services. Could that model continue or would it have to be changed?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

So there is only one left.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

Is the aim for the new national care service to take ownership of those assets or would the local authority still be a provider to the service? Is that still to be worked out? It may not be known yet.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

As we go through the business cases, there will, as you say, potentially be additional capital costs to the Scottish Government in buying assets from local government where authorities have chosen to pull out of providing the service and leave it up to the national care service.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

This is my last point. The Scottish Government desires to reduce its estate and offices and have more people co-locating. From the financial memorandum, it looks like there will be new offices as the extra level is created. Does that not go against what the Scottish Government is doing in trying to rationalise?