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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 May 2025
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Displaying 1491 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

My last question relates to that specific issue. One of the issues with the inclusion of children’s services was the fact that most social work practitioners in Scotland had no idea that this was being proposed or that they might, as a result, be transferred from their current employers into some different form of employment that had yet to be decided. Has any proper engagement happened with the profession in that respect?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

That is good to hear. Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

Minister, you will be aware that the Government’s medium-term financial strategy projects a shortfall of £1 billion in 2024-25 and £1.9 billion in 2027-28. What has the Cabinet Secretary for Finance told you that the country can afford to spend on the national care service?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

So, she has not given any indication of the spending envelope that might be available.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

When the medium-term financial strategy was published, the Scottish Parliament information centre, the Fraser of Allander Institute and the Institute for Fiscal Studies all commented that figures for the policy were missing from those projections, so whatever you are being given to spend to make the policy happen is not included in them.

It comes down to the question of what comes first. You are saying a lot about co-design and putting the right system in place, but I am not getting a sense of real confidence that we are working in a financially prudent way to think about the financial limitations. How far are such limitations informing the co-design process?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

Have you decided on the inclusion of children’s services?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

Do you have any indication of the costs that are associated with that? That is thousands of staff, isn’t it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

That will be stage 1. Will the cost impacts be included in the financial memorandum?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

It feels to me as though there are an awful lot of moving parts. There have been questions from colleagues about our still being in the depths of co-design and our not having taken a decision on the inclusion of critical areas such as children’s services, around which there are huge financial issues. Taking into account recess, we are looking, by my reckoning, at having to receive that memorandum roughly on 11 December, which is just weeks away. Do we have a draft of the financial memorandum?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

I assume that in the business case and the policy evaluation we would see that great social benefit, the preventative money and where we would save money. I am in full agreement, minister, with regard to those huge, varied benefits, but the reality is that we have to be able to pay for them.