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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 May 2025
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Displaying 1491 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Michael Marra

When you came to the committee on 13 June, I asked about the resource spending review. I asked specifically whether the policy had been dropped, and you said, “Yes.” On 14 June, in the chamber, I asked a similar question. I asked:

“Has the review been killed off ... ?”—[Official Report, 14 June 2023; c 15.]

and you said, “No”. I am quoting from the Official Report, although we might quibble about some of the detail.

This is also, in part, a question of cost control. You have talked about the number of public bodies. One of the key growth areas in the public sector reform agenda is in your core civil service. There was a previous commitment to return the workforce to pre-pandemic levels, from which I think—although I am not sure—the Government has resiled. Maybe you can clarify that: is it no or is it yes? Is that another area where costs have got badly out of control?

12:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Michael Marra

For clarity, the resource spending review policy was not my policy; it was the Government’s policy. It was your stated intent, or that of your predecessor, to reduce the size of that workforce. I entirely sympathise that there are areas where it has to increase and others where it has to reduce. My overall point is that you said that we are facing the same headwinds as other parts of the UK, but is the key issue not your Government’s ability to control its expenditure and the difference between what you say you are going to do and the money that we have coming in?

There has to be more discipline on your part, as the person who holds the purse strings on taxpayers’ money, to make sure that we control the costs of government and reduce the amount of waste, because there are several areas where costs are, by your admission, out of control.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Michael Marra

There have been some emerging themes in our pre-budget scrutiny. The longer term has come up several times today. In your own words, we have to look “beyond the horizon”. The issue of prevention has come up on many occasions, as has the lamentation of the lack of implementation of Christie and the opportunities that that might have afforded us as a country if we had done more on prevention.

Demos has produced a report saying that we should have a third demarcation of public spending. It thinks that, instead of having only capital and revenue, we should also have a preventative departmental expenditure limit. What are your thoughts on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Michael Marra

I am in full agreement on that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Michael Marra

I suppose that I am asking, as I was in my earlier question, whether there is a point at which the Government will take a view on whether we have enough money to pay for the ferries.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Michael Marra

I suppose that the biggest wins for Scotland are in the health space. Obviously, that has the biggest portion of our budget, and it is where savings could be made. I have sympathy, as it would be easier if this happened at a time when there was an increasing spending envelope, rather than at a time when there is a decreasing spending envelope. However, that is the point of this work. We need to continue to talk about transparency. Perhaps the officials will reflect on how we might account for preventative spend differently.

I will move on to a different area. Last week, we had the minister responsible for the national care service in front of us. I asked about the amount of money to be allocated in the longer run to the national care service. On expenditure, Maree Todd said:

“I will be candid and say that the cabinet secretary has not set a ceiling.”—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 26 September 2023, c 16.]

Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Michael Marra

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

I bet the kids loved it, though.

I want to ask the witnesses whether they feel that there is a coherent plan for growth in Scotland. The language of growth seems to be a bit more fashionable now, driven by the budget gap that we talked about earlier. Sandy Begbie made some points about how to grow the base. A lot of what some of you have said today feels quite defensive of what support there is. Is there a plan for growth from the Government?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

There are discussions, but I am not hearing much about actions or what the measures that will deliver growth actually look like.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

What I am working towards here is that that is not very far away.