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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 July 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

I want to start on the advocacy issue and I will come to Nicola Killean first. You mentioned that tackling big systemic issues takes many years. We have had a children’s commissioner for 21 years in Scotland. Where do you think that the children’s commissioner’s office has improved outcomes for children?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

I am sorry to interrupt. I absolutely agree with what you have said about appointments, but you are making a case for having stronger enforcement functions that would allow you to instruct public bodies or public services on what to do. How would that relate to the democratic function of an elected Parliament? Who should be accountable for the direction of public services?

I sound as though I am being quite harsh on you all, but I think that these are political questions and that you would be well within your rights to say, “This is your job.” My concern is that we are ceding part of our job to you and that you are perhaps requesting to have more of those functions.

There is a question about what kind of country we want to live in. We have elections, parties put forward manifestos and politicians are then elected to make such decisions. Is it not the case that we would be adding an extra layer beyond that? For instance, we would be asking you to make some of those decisions if we gave you the extra powers that Jan Savage described.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

How do other colleagues feel about whether your role is democratic or supports democracy in Scotland?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

I can ask them that. I am inviting lots of comments on other colleagues.

Dr Plastow, you said in your submission:

“In my view there are also opportunities for Parliament to strengthen post-implementation review arrangements.”

You have talked about that already in terms of accountability. How do you judge your outcomes for the public, whether you have achieved your mandate and you are producing value for the public?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

There is a lot in there about a rights discourse, but child poverty has increased significantly over those 21 years, we have a decline in educational outcomes for young people and we have a mental health crisis among children and adolescents. Is there a risk here that we are more concerned with issues of rights rather than outcomes and what happens to young people as a result?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

The issue is about both the presentation of rights and the realisation of rights. I could not agree more strongly with you. The strategic plan that you have set out certainly chimes with my views—I have also listened to children—on the needs of children and young people over the coming years.

I wonder, however, whether the demand for advocacy roles that we have discussed suggests that there is a disconnect between a discourse of rights and the realisation of rights. Young people’s rights are not being realised and the outcomes are going in the wrong direction for many young people, while we promise them UNCRC implementation and other legal provisions. It comes down to some of the concerns that the committee has about the outcomes for people rather than process issues.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

That is really useful.

Jan Savage talked about how powerful civil society is in making representations to the Parliament. Why are parts of the third sector and civil society asking for more commissioners?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michael Marra

It also jumped out at me—I think that this point is coming through from the questions that my colleagues are asking—that you observe in the report that

“There is very little published research”

in this area and

“little evaluation exploring the pros and cons of different approaches”.

At the inquiry’s outset, we are working on the basis of there being very little published work exploring this area, and that is probably where you found yourself, too. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michael Marra

So as far as you could determine, none of the responses was based on people’s experience of other commissioners.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michael Marra

Yes—I am wondering what that is. Your report mentions the need to

“bridge the gap between good intention and policy and practice on the ground”.

Is that what is meant by the “accountability gap”? I am trying to dig into the purpose of a commissioner, and I am not really sure what the point about the accountability mechanism means.