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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 23 October 2025
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Displaying 1825 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

I understand that, cabinet secretary. To be fair, that is not the part that I am talking about. I am talking about your record of recovery and whether you are satisfied with the 10 per cent figure.

I see that Mr Wallace is keen to come back in.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

I am happy to do that, and then I will come back on some of that detail.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

Thank you.

I take it that that piece of work has been completed. Mr Wallace said that the review of reviews has been undertaken, and you are confident that you are making the right decisions. So it seems that that is done, and you have reported back to the cabinet secretary that no savings will be made in this area.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

That is useful detail, but I do not think that it answers my question, which was about whether you will contribute a saving to the £1 billion of money that has been identified by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

Okay—I will have to pick.

I will ask about the effective operation of appointeeships, as that is about the general operation of Social Security Scotland. I am concerned that, since a report identified that 33,000 appointeeships were to be reviewed by Social Security Scotland, only 8,600, I believe, have been reviewed, and there has been a drastic reduction in the number of staff who have been applied to the task. Is that fair, Mr Wallace?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

My point is about the sensible application of resources in the organisation. We have talked about operating costs and we recognise that that is a challenge for you, given the scale of the things that you have to do, but the promise was that there would be individual interviews with each of the 33,000 people involved. Is Social Security Scotland overpromising and underdelivering? Such arrangements apply to some of the most vulnerable people in Scotland—many of whom, as has been identified by the work that you have done so far, are being abused as a result of the abuse of appointeeships.

There is a lack of pace. You have said that you are going to do that work, but time is running on and you are decreasing the resource to do it. I appreciate our time constraints, convener, so could we have a written update, Mr Wallace, on what has been done, the promise that you made, when you expect that work to be concluded and the number of staff who are being applied to the task, given that you just acknowledged that you have already moved people off that and into other areas? As I said, those involved are incredibly vulnerable—they are some of the most disabled people in society—and they deserve what has been promised.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

I was struck by the call for a transformation fund in the Universities Scotland submission. Back on 24 June, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills said in the chamber:

“I recognise that many institutions have, over recent years, worked proactively in response to a challenging operating environment to rationalise their operations, including their staffing levels. However, there is a need for our universities to reflect on the levels of growth that we have witnessed in some institutions during the pandemic in particular. Some of the planned job losses that are currently being experienced relate directly to that uncapped expansion; the costs that are being paid today are the unsustainable jobs that were created as a result of that.”—[Official Report, 24 June 2025; c 14.]

I think that that is essentially a green light to universities across Scotland to shed jobs, which is in contrast to your call for more investment to try to bridge the challenge, which Liz Smith rightly pointed to. Where do you think things are alighting now? Are universities taking the cabinet secretary’s advice, or are they waiting to try to find funding that can help them to make the change?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

Sorry, I am speaking about specific circumstances. If somebody were to be fined, would the fine be added to their debt? It is not specific to the £36 million; it is about individuals, were that to happen.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

I thank the cabinet secretary for her evidence so far. I go back to the £36 million black hole. If somebody were to be fined in court for fraudulently claiming benefits, would that fine be added to their debt?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Michael Marra

Is that £300,000 out of £10 million?