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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 August 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Michael Marra

I am sorry, but it is a bit of a yes or no question. Did you raise concerns about the impact? We have heard a lot about the great work that you have done with headteachers and other people. Did you or did you not raise concerns?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Michael Marra

But it is not the best way for those kids. I know that it is not your decision alone—it sits on the desks of the cabinet secretary and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, and conversations happen there, too—and I am not saying that you guys are to blame, but I would have thought that, given the work that you have done over the years, you would have recognised all this. However, what I am hearing is: no, you did not raise any concerns.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Michael Marra

Of course.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Michael Marra

That pertains to a very small area.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

I want to pick up on the line of questioning that the convener started, about the change to the formula. Prior to the pandemic, we had what we were told was very limited progress against the Government’s targets on closing the attainment gap—those are Audit Scotland’s words.

We know that, following the pandemic, the gap in attainment between the richest and the poorest groups is the largest that it has ever been, and that it has grown significantly. We all recognise the impact of the pandemic on that gap, given its impact on our most deprived communities. Therefore, I find it a little bit surprising to hear our witness from Inverclyde Council talking about the council’s exit strategy. Surely the exit strategy should be to ensure that those kids have better attainment, rather than to ask ourselves how we stop spending money on it? I want to explore the rationale of that a little bit.

According to the committee’s papers, the reduction in Inverclyde is 47 per cent and the local authority area is consistently among the most deprived communities in Scotland. At the other end of the table is our witness from East Renfrewshire, which is consistently one of the most affluent local authority areas in Scotland, and its funding is up by 43 per cent.

We all recognise that what we might call hidden poverty exists in every community and that such figures mask numbers. By making this change, are we are moving away from using the rationale of severe multiple deprivation in communities and towards something more general? To me, that has been a founding principle of how we have dealt with poverty in Scotland over a generation—or, at the very least, how we have talked about poverty, as dealing with it is a different matter. Has that rationale changed? I ask Ruth Binks to start.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

I am not sure that that answers my question about young people now—those who have left school.

I have one more specific question before I turn to Mark Ratter. Will you use PEF money to make up for cuts to SAC funding?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

My question is at a slight tangent to the points about headship, but it is relevant to how the attainment challenge work is governed and run. We have talked about numbers, but data that was recently published in Tes magazine showed a significant decline in the number of deputes and others who actually want to become headteachers. You have talked about the work that is done with headteachers. Why are people less attracted to that job than they were previously?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

Does the decline in the number of people aspiring to headship suggest that pressures have grown in recent years? Is that something that you recognise?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Petitions

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

I am conscious that we have received some evidence—through the Ken Muir report on initial teacher education and discussions around it—that some forms were put in place almost a generation ago and have been replicated elsewhere, but we have not kept them up to date. I know that we have a full work programme for the next year at least, but, perhaps later in the session, after we have been through the legislative process, the subjects that are dealt with in the petition might be addressed in a future inquiry. That is not on the immediate horizon, but I am sure that it would come up if there was another discussion about initial teacher education. The committee might want to have that discussion at some point, and I certainly think that there would be grounds for doing so.

11:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

[Inaudible.]—the cuts from SAC?