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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Cross-Party Groups

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Michael Marra

On your first question, the answer is certainly yes. In a year, the involvement of other groups would be a signal of success and demand in the area. In order to understand what the broader demand is, I would be keen to set the group up and see whether there is the real demand that I believe there to be—and that other members have expressed to me that they, too, see—for a particular forum on these issues. Testing that demand through the establishment of the group would be the right thing.

I understand your point about the existence of other meetings and forums. However, within parts of the communities that we all represent, there is a frustration that parental voices are perhaps not given a high enough profile in the general discussion. As a member of the Education, Children and Young People Committee—as you are, Mr Doris—I think that we could perhaps reflect more broadly on that.

You cited a specific example of a recent meeting. I am not entirely clear about what was done. I could ask Connect whether it was aware of, and engaged in, that meeting. However, as I have said, it is not just about having a forum for Connect. The proposed group would be a specific forum for issues on long-term policy trends and the engagement of families in education policy and the education of their young people. Education is a broad issue that touches on many areas of policy, and there will clearly be different forums for it. Giving this topic specific focus would be the right thing to do.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Cross-Party Groups

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Michael Marra

It is fair to say that there is definitely more work to do in that regard. In conversations that I have had with colleagues, they have expressed concerns similar to those that Mr Mountain expressed. They have said, “It’s a really important topic. I am on so many CPGs already, but I’d be keen to attend and see how it works.” Female colleagues I have spoken to are certainly very much of that view, but they have perhaps been less inclined to put their names down in the first instance, having signed up to many CPGs already. The secretariat is female led, which will certainly provide an initial balance to the leadership of the group, but I appreciate that there is more work to do.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

But—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

You think that colleges and universities should make up the gap.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

With respect, the feedback that I have had shows that gaps definitely exist, and, as we have said, your methodology recognises that gaps exist, but I am not sure that I am hearing where you think those gaps should be made up. For example, should the college or the university make up for the lost learning of someone who has left school and gone somewhere else?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

The witnesses might have picked up on the session that we had with Education Scotland prior to the summer recess, in which senior officials told the committee that the organisation was not being scrapped. I think that it is fair to say that the Scottish Government has been very clear on that issue and on the SQA’s status. What will be different about Scotland’s qualifications agency after the process is completed?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

On that point, Ken Muir’s report was quite clear in recommending the separation of awarding functions from accreditation and regulation. Do you think that separation, which is a clear recommendation, will be taken forward?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

There are currently four non-executive directors in addition to the board members, which makes a total of 11, the majority of whom—six—are employees of the SQA.

I suppose that where I am going with this is that members of the committee and external organisations have expressed concern that—just as happened with Education Scotland—we are looking at a rebrand rather than at a replacement or a substantive reform.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

But—if I may, please—in contrast with much of your submission to the committee and what we have heard, the Government has concluded that the organisation has failed in recent years, otherwise it would not be scrapping it.

The question now is what replaces the organisation. It strikes me that, if the system is driven by the management of the existing organisation—we are being told by some that their organisations are not even being scrapped—can we really have faith that this reform process is based on the needs of the future? Should external voices not be being heard? Should users not be represented in the process? Should such people not make the decisions, rather than the six SQA managers—including you, Mr Baxter—who are listed on my piece of paper?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

The committee would recognise the challenge of undertaking both functions at the same time. My answer to that is to ask why things are taking quite so long, with a transition process taking years and a national conversation after the conclusion of a qualifications review. That exacerbates the problem. The—