Chamber and committees

I came into the discussion wanting to listen to the minister and her officials with a fairly open mind about the matter. I have heard that there are strong safeguards and a robust process across agencies to ensure that the public are protected. The practical effect of the change seems to be that we go through the same process but in a timeous manner that enables people to have a chance in their lives if the process comes to a positive conclusion for them.

I am also satisfied that the numbers of people on the barred list who are making applications for removal are almost vanishingly small. Therefore, there should be sufficient capacity to ensure that the processes are robust.

I have listened to the arguments and am convinced that the regulations take a reasonable step with a robust process to protect the public.

My first questions, for Leon Thompson, are about the skills gaps and the impact of the pandemic. Plenty of us have seen signs in the windows of pubs and cafes saying that they are looking for staff, and signs on some pubs and shops saying that they cannot open because they do not have enough staff.

Do you feel that this is a short-term shock to our labour supply that is particularly acute? You have talked about work being done for the long term, but let us leave that to the side for the moment. It is good to hear about the good partnership working across the different areas, but I am particularly keen to see what we can do in the short term to try to help industry address these issues.

I find that really useful. The trends that you are laying out for the sector may have emerged due to the rapid rebounding of the economy, which I think has taken most people by surprise, globally. The scale of the Government investment to try and ensure that that has happened has been welcome, although there are skills shortages, as you have illustrated, in many countries around the world. That is fairly common, although I do not doubt that some of that has been exacerbated by the shape of our labour market with regard to immigration.

Do you believe that, as a result of that, and given the longer-term changes in people’s behaviour, both in their working patterns and as consumers, we need to have a more profound reset in how we address these issues? You have spoken about the positive atmosphere in working with agencies, and that is great. Do we need to examine some of the issues in a more concerted way and to think about what is emerging as a new normal?

Okay. I turn to Jennifer King from Dundee City Council. Earlier in the meeting, I declared an interest as an elected member of that council, and I am aware from speaking to officers that Dundee is potentially looking at upwards of £4 million of cuts to Scottish attainment challenge funding. What adjustments are you looking at in the department to cope with those cuts?

The Scottish Government’s commitment was that monitors would be in 100 per cent of classrooms. Has that happened?

I thank everyone for their evidence so far. The panel will be pleased to learn that their evidence chimes with the evidence that we have received in recent weeks about the lack of an overall analysis of need in Scotland. We have heard about that loud and clear, not just in your answers to colleagues’ questions today but also in your written evidence. In that context, I want to ask you about changes to the Scottish attainment challenge, which is, as has been mentioned, one of the key sources of resource that councils have been drawing on for provision.

You will be aware that the challenge was reformed last week. The announcement detailed £35.5 million of year-on-year cuts to the funding, including £17 million from PEF, and it set out the reallocation of £43 million from the nine most deprived authorities to be spread across the 32 local authorities. It means savage, eye-watering cuts for the nine original Scottish attainment challenge authorities. Will the reforms be beneficial or damaging to the recovery of education for the most deprived pupils in the most deprived communities in Scotland? I ask our colleague from COSLA to answer that first.

The particular circumstances in the nine local authorities that have had massive cuts to their budgets in the past week really need to be addressed in any report, too.

I welcome the agreement between you, convener, and Mr Doris that a report should be forthcoming and that we get some information from COSLA. However, I must point out—and I should declare an interest here as a councillor with Dundee City Council—that the cabinet secretary has just cut over £4 million of the council’s education budget. As a result, coming back to your question to Jennifer King on whether people are moving to permanent contracts, I have to say that that would be particularly challenging in Dundee, given the size of the direct cut that has been made. It is key that we reflect some of that in this context—

As a native Dundonian, you will appreciate my concern about the situation that you describe, with the good work that has happened in recent years being under threat, and its having to be re-evaluated with regard to whether we can afford it, at a time when need is increasing.

What do the other two panellists think about the revision in the areas of highest deprivation? Can we meet the need if we are cutting resource in that way?

I have asked a lot of questions about ventilation. This might seem to be a jump in my questioning, but it is one of the key issues when it comes to ensuring that there can be continuous education in our schools. I believe that our NASUWT colleague has done some survey work or has spoken to his members about it, and I wonder whether he can give us some feedback on that. Mike, what is your understanding of the current situation with ventilation in schools? Do your colleagues deem it to be adequate?