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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 December 2025
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Displaying 1965 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

I will return to the issue of the workforce, if that is okay. The resource spending review said that the Government was going to seek

“to return the”

overall

“size of the public sector workforce ... to pre-COVID ... levels”.

You are saying that you have not baked any of those figures relating to policy intent into your forecast. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

On workforce planning, you have said in your submission that you have “around 9,400” permanently contracted full-time staff. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

So you think that your ability to meet any broader intent in that regard is limited until we get into reform. Is that a process that needs to be led more—with more indication—and perhaps in the direction that the convener talked about? Would it involve more intent from the Government? Is that what you mean when you talk about the need to “get into reform”?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

But you have had consistent budget deficits for the past six years, and perhaps longer, prior to the pandemic.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

What does that evidence tell you?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

Just to conclude, how urgent is the work of the tax group, given the situation that we currently face and also what is outlined in your forecasts?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

Thank you.

On reading your submission, I wondered about the scale of the change required. In the course of the committee’s inquiry, we have discussed the shift to preventative spend and the demographic challenges. Is the range of the programme that you are undertaking commensurate with the scale of the challenges that you, as a leader in your field, are seeing in demographics, technology and new forms of healthcare? Is the change that you have represented in your submission up to that task?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

I want to broaden that question out beyond the digital infrastructure to the delivery of health services across the whole board area, including where services are situated, and the way in which you are looking at the future of your geography and your people. Do you have a change programme that addresses that broader set of issues?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

On the broader issue of how you deal with a rapidly ageing population, are you advocating a technological approach to changing services instead of talking about, say, which areas of primary care might be addressed, how we might piece all of that together and so on? I am trying to think about this in a slightly broader way by looking at the driving forces, but you seem quite focused on the technology aspect.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Michael Marra

In some of the evidence that we have had so far, there has been a little bit of dubiety about the Government’s absolute position on managing the workforce. The resource spending review, which came out a while back under the previous cabinet secretary for finance, committed the Government to reducing head count to pre-pandemic levels. However, you seem to be indicating that your intent is to remove non-full-time-equivalent permanent staff by trying to manage down your bank nurses and other contractors. Is such a characterisation right?