The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 2160 contributions
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 25 January 2024
Michael Marra
I want to ask a little more about the core of the reform agenda. You have already touched on the problems of relationships in IJBs. We asked your officials about that earlier in the week. There is real dysfunction at the core of how money flows between the NHS and local authorities, and there is a lack of strategic ability to address that. How will the reforms that you have put in front of us address that core problem?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 25 January 2024
Michael Marra
I will come back to oversight. What will that shared accountability do to deal with the core problem that two different sets of budgets go into one pot, that there are votes from the NHS and local authorities, and that they cannot decide strategically about what needs to be invested in?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 25 January 2024
Michael Marra
I will come back to the national scrutiny issue shortly. We still do not know what the changes will look like at local level or how the relationships will change. You have already said this morning that you have identified problems in those relationships, but you cannot tell us how voting rights and so on will shift at local level.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
That is useful.
Following on from Mr Mason’s questions, I want to touch on the integration authorities. Can you give me an update of your estimated costs for the changes necessary to introduce the new versions of the IJBs?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
So, if the total cost is £65.8 million, it feels to me, given the answers that you gave to my colleague, that the costs are pretty much going to be the same.
Let us take the health and social care partnership in Dundee. At the moment, there are 18 members sitting on that board and the votes are split equally. There are six voting members—three from local authorities and three from the health board. Are you proposing that we change that model?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
Do you mean that, if the committee had signed off the original FM, we would potentially have been looking at a bill of £3.9 billion?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
You do not know—okay. I think that that role is key. My view is that those organisations are non-strategic because of the critical interaction between the two sources of finance, and I am not hearing any clarity in the proposals about how you are going to deal with those finances differently. It is all tied up in the votes, as far as I can see. If you do not deal with that issue, I do not think that we have answers to that.
On the interaction with the national care board, from the answers that you have given, I am still struggling to understand the point at which a decision might be taken nationally to instruct one of the integration authorities to do something. Is that the relationship that you foresee?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
The intervention powers are already there and ministers can already do that. You have said that you want to increase local democratic accountability; I am wondering about the interaction between that and the national board. Suppose a local authority says that it does not have any money and is skint because it has had its budget cut for more than a decade—or probably for 15 years by then—and that it does not have any more money to put in. Is it your view that the national body will tell it to put money in?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
That is 30 million quid to not tell local authorities to do things differently, because you said that you do not envisage local authorities being told that they should do things differently or spend more money.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
That was going to be one of my questions. Would you say that my figures are correct because the original memorandum covered five years?