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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 May 2025
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Displaying 1489 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Michael Marra

The regional improvement collaboratives have budgets and seconded staff, so they create their own bureaucracy. Mr Ewing’s questioning along that line was about that middle ground. They are intermediate organisations. Essentially, they are the rusting hulks of the failed reform agenda of the previous cabinet secretary. They are the left-over result of an attempt to remove the control of education policy from local councils.

Having spoken to teachers, I tend to agree that some of those collaboratives have had some value. Indeed, what you have described—being led by teachers, sharing, empowering teachers and giving them the information that they need—sounds a little like what has been got out of the regional improvement collaboratives that have worked. Are we not looking at another duplication?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

Therefore, in essence, the legislation contains the powers to do the same things but in a slightly different form. One of the principal criticisms, and one of the reasons that the UK—England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland—has one of the worst records globally for its response to the pandemic, is that we based our response on plans for the previous pandemics. That is always a problem. Other countries have made similar mistakes, but ours have been particularly acute. At the start of the pandemic, we were thinking that we were in a flu situation, but we were not; it is a different form of virus. We put in place and used the plans and ideas that we had waiting, but we were wrong in that regard. You understand the critique and concern.

I understand that there is a balance to strike with regard to preparation and putting in place enabling legislation, powers or something from the shelf, as the convener suggested. However, if we do not really learn the lessons and analyse the situation that we are in, is that not the worst of all worlds?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

We should consider the weight of the evidence. Last week, the Government presented an analysis of the responses to the consultation, in which it asked us to disregard 96 per cent of the responses because they were opposed to the bill. The remaining 4 per cent of responses came from those who had given evidence at committee, and none of them—nobody—thought that the legislation was a good idea.

09:45  

You talk about building consensus. It seems that you have managed to build a consensus of opposition to what you are putting in place. Those who make up the 4 per cent are people who provide Government services, and they have issued caveats and made reasonable and reasoned objections. There is no support for the bill—nobody thinks that it is the right thing to do.

If you were endeavouring to seek consensus, you have achieved it, but it is a consensus of opposition. Have you got it wrong in the way that you are proceeding?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

It would be useful to have that data.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

No—it is on the cabinet’s secretary’s last point. The committee was moved significantly by that evidence and the need for urgent action. We heard about one individual who was in prison as a result of not appearing as a witness, and we know about the lengths of the delays. Every day that that individual spends in prison affects their future life chances. Can you provide assurances that there is a sense of urgency from Government ministers and that they are doing something about the issue, rather than just reviewing the situation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

However, do you accept that the legislation is modelled on the powers that were put in place for the pandemic that we are still in?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

If I can, convener, I will close with a short question.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

That opens up a whole pile of questions, but I have had my time.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

It is just that a couple of fairly large nurseries in my area have closed, which has created a lot of problems for people. I recognise that some of that is to do with behaviour changes in families, but such closures make the business models perhaps less sustainable than they previously were. It feels like a moment of fairly major change in how people are accessing childcare and nursery education, but you think that that has been taken on board in the work that has been done.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

Cabinet secretary, you mentioned that you will endeavour to seek consensus and that you will take your time—that is one of the things that you said. One of the committee’s witnesses last week found it quite difficult to understand why you would not wait to take on board the conclusions of a public inquiry that has been established to determine what powers there should be and why we are talking about a sequence in which we are legislating and then thinking about the situation. Can you answer that question for them?