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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 29 July 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Michael Marra

But we have no idea at the moment how many of those people will be transferred to a new body. I am just clarifying what you have said and whether that is the case. Indeed, Mr Stewart has just said that we do not know whether they will transfer or not.

As you will be aware, the Scottish Association of Social Work has asked for a pause on the bill. It is gravely concerned about the shape of all of this, because it does not have any answers. Have you considered at all in the financial memorandum the issue of pensions, which are not included under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations, and what will happen to social workers’ pensions?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Michael Marra

I will finish off the questions on this area. If it is okay, convener, I will ask one more question, which is on resourcing.

Is the Government minded to amend schedule 3 to narrow the scope of the powers in the bill that relate to the issues that we have been discussing and to give some clarity on what is in and what is out when it comes to children’s services? I understand the arguments about co-design and the process, but it feels to me as though we are going back to managing risk. Perhaps the minister can reflect on where the lines fall between services; in fact, he himself has talked eloquently about the gap between different areas. Minister, can you reflect on my suggestion and see whether it might be a possibility?

More broadly on the issue of resourcing, you have talked in your evidence today about national collective bargaining, essentially around social work services, and you have also talked about a once-for-Scotland commissioning of services in this area. You have mentioned a variety of areas, including kinship care and levelling up the money in that respect, but I have not heard any analysis of the resourcing for any of those areas.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Michael Marra

Nicky Connor, have you seen a marshalled evidence base to support the change?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Michael Marra

I know that individual social workers whom you employ will have particular roles in areas such as throughcare and aftercare, but other social workers cover a wide range of issues. Therefore, am I correct in thinking that those social workers who deal with care issues can also deal with the other issues?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Michael Marra

However, do you recognise that your colleagues in Dundee City Council are completely and resolutely opposed to the proposed change? The chief social workers and all the people who do that work think that it is completely untenable.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Michael Marra

Do you think that there is a risk of a culture clash, Jude Currie?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Michael Marra

Vicky, have you seen a marshalled evidence base on the transfer of children’s services? As we have heard, the Feeley review was about adult care.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Michael Marra

Fiona Duncan, do you think that we should be following evidence-based policy making? Have you seen any evidence?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Michael Marra

That is useful.

Vicky Irons, those mixed portfolios are key to how social workers are trained, learn their profession and become qualified. How do you see all those functions landing in a national care service?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Michael Marra

The area that I am interested in has been touched on already, but I am keen to dig a little more, as it involves the nub of my concerns, which are to do with the range of work that is undertaken by social work and children’s services and whether the national care service will focus predominantly or too much on the care issue.

Fiona Duncan, as you mentioned that issue, can you illustrate the breadth of areas that your social work colleagues deal with, beyond and including the issues of care?