Chamber and committees

Good morning. I have two questions. The first is a direct question for Marsha Scott, and I then have an open question to the other witnesses.

Marsha, I have spoken to you at three informal meetings and you have responded to two formal consultations. From my recollection—and according to the minutes that I have from our one-to-one meeting in July—you said that my bill is moving in the right direction. You had said that you would be happy to support the creation of the register with the addition of some amendments to address certain things—for example, to add that the register should include information on where the perpetrator works, because we had said that it would include the address where someone lives.

I was therefore really surprised to see your latest written response, given that I have been working with you throughout the process to ensure that we have good legislation. I used the whole summer to speak to a lot of organisations, including 22 Women’s Aid organisations, the majority of which were supportive of my bill. That was also reflected in the consultation responses, with five Women’s Aid organisations indicating their support for the bill and specifically the register—

Would it help if I summed up what I heard today and you could all say whether you agree? I have heard from you that the issues are resources and funding, and how the bill is going to work with existing structures.

Thank you.

Because of the time, I cannot come back on that, so I will just go on to my next question, if that is okay.

Sorry, convener.

As Marsha Scott knows, I have concerns that organisations that are funded by the Scottish Government may say one thing publicly and another in informal settings, as their views may lead to funding being withdrawn. What has changed from what you said previously?

I thank all the witnesses for coming to discuss my bill. We are going through the 16 days of activism against sex-based violence, so it is important to raise awareness of domestic abuse. We know that, year after year, the number of cases is getting higher, and repeat offending is rising, too. Many survivors who I have spoken to have said that things have not changed. From the consultation responses, and from the evidence that we have heard today, we see that there is some support for the creation of a domestic abuse register and for the other aspects of the bill.

Some of you have indicated where amendments would be needed to improve the bill. My goal is to make good legislation so, if the bill passes stage 1, what improvements should be made at stage 2 to ensure that survivors feel safe and that the burden on public authorities is as minimal as possible?

Tumay Forster can go first.

Good morning, ladies. It is good to see you back. Thank you for all the information that you have provided so far.

The mapping exercise on access to justice found that only 38 human rights services offer legal representation, out of 262 services. As you have probably heard, the committee has taken evidence that indicates that people in rural areas are even more disadvantaged than people in urban areas, as access to justice is even more restricted.

We heard an example of a woman in the Highlands who had contacted a solicitor 116 times about her divorce case. That is not an isolated case; some women have contacted between 30 and 60 firms to try to get a legal aid lawyer—sometimes successfully, but sometimes unsuccessfully.

As you know, it takes a lot for a woman to come forward, especially when they have been domestically abused and are at their most vulnerable. For them to not have access to justice just puts them behind and makes them ask, “Why am I doing this? Why come forward when there is no service to help me?” What steps should be taken to improve access to justice, especially in rural areas?

Just overall, on the services we are talking about, basically, and joint working more—

Thank you, Jan. If I may, convener, I will just come back on that. It is good to see that you have put forward some good, robust recommendations. You talk about holding the Scottish Government to account, and you have said that you certainly hope that it will implement the approach. However, I feel that, from what I have seen as a member of the committee and from the evidence that we have taken over the past couple of years when I have been talking about these issues, nothing has changed—and, unfortunately, people on the ground in rural areas are feeling that even more.

Obviously, you will keep bringing the situation up with the Government. Is there anything else that you could do to push the Government to make sure that it is implementing and delivering?

Thank you for that. I asked a question last week about joint working, which you have just mentioned, especially in relation to housing and access to GPs. Nothing works in a silo. Actually, to be honest, some things do work in silos, but we want services to take a joined-up approach. When we are dealing with a domestic abuse case, silo working is of no use if we need to take the survivor away from the perpetrator, given that they may require housing and, right now, as you know, there are housing shortages in many rural areas.

Services cannot work without one another. I want to hear a little bit more about joined-up working. I have said to the Minister for Equalities, Kaukab Stewart quite a few times that we need to start right at the top. It is about budgeting—making sure that the Scottish Government is setting the right budgets—but also ensuring that departments speak to one another. The majority of the time, that does not happen—we have seen evidence of that. Budgets are created for different areas and departments, and they are maybe not speaking to one another. On the ground, as you can see, that becomes a broken-up approach.

We have spoken about how people who are experiencing domestic abuse may not get a house, and there are issues with people not getting GP appointments and difficulties with transport links. I just want to hear a little bit more from the commission about how important it is that the Scottish Government implements a joined-up approach to its work, from those at the top down to those on the ground.