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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 July 2025
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Displaying 760 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning, panel, and thank you for your opening statements.

I want to ask about lowering the minimum age at which a person can apply for legal gender recognition. I think that I am correct in saying that the Scottish Trans Alliance has welcomed that, but it has also stated:

“there should also be provisions for individuals struggling with their application to request support, and these should be especially sensitive to those under 18 who may be applying without the support of their parent or guardian.”

The alliance then goes on to say:

“explainers ... on ... what a GRC means, and how it could be used would ... be helpful”.

Do you think that, if individuals of a certain age are unable to understand

“what a GRC means, and how it could be used”

and require additional support to understand and submit an application, it might be unwise to lower the minimum age? That question is for Vic Valentine, first of all.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Colin, do you have anything to add?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Going back to what Dr Crawford said about support and something that Vic Valentine said about having explainers, that suggests that you are looking at having a much wider support mechanism. If you are looking at people who have disabilities and need extra help, that cannot just be an explainer on a piece of paper. Support services will have to be provided to say what a GRC is and what it means. Am I right that you are saying that what is needed is more than just explainers and descriptions?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Yes.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I have a follow-up question. I asked the first panel a question about prisoner services. You mentioned a situation in which discrimination could occur, regardless of whether the person had a GRC. I will try to word this right: where does the onus lie when it comes to the Prison Service deciding where somebody should go?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

If there was no GRC, how would one protect women prisoners from men who say that they are women in order to transfer prisons? What are your thoughts on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you. Dr Crawford, do you have anything to add?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I thank Melanie Field for her opening statement. The Scottish Government asserts that the bill will not change rights under the 2010 act, but it has not produced a reasoned explanation for its position. The EHRC’s letter of July 2021 to the Trans Legal Project says:

“we think that it is unlikely that a trans person without a GRC can claim direct discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment if they are denied access to a single or separate sex service that corresponds with their lived gender.”

The EHRC has since revisited its guidance on single-sex spaces and services. Will you provide an update on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Miners’ Strike (Pardons) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I support amendments 2, 3 and 5 in the name of the cabinet secretary, as they improve clarity around who will receive a pardon as well as widen the scope of the pardon appropriately, even if that is likely to affect only a small number of people.

The bill, as introduced, contains some ambiguities around qualifying conduct. As a result, I have lodged amendment 15, which, alongside amendments 9, 10 and 11 in the name of my colleague Alexander Stewart, seeks to remove some of the potential for the bill to be misinterpreted and for an individual to mistakenly believe that they have received a pardon. As the improved drafting in amendment 3, in the name of the cabinet secretary, will also achieve that goal, I am happy to support that amendment, regardless of the fact that it pre-empts other amendments in the group.