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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
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Displaying 801 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

You say that a trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man. How do you feel about religious people—minority groups out there—who feel that their religion will be impacted if somebody else is in that space? We heard in one of our private sessions that that would exclude more women and girls from minority groups. I do not know whether you have an example, but it would be good to hear your thoughts on why minority groups would not be affected if a trans woman came into a changing room, space or service.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I have one more question. Are there any international comparisons, whether from Europe or outside Europe, that you have made with regard to religious rights? Obviously we have to ensure that we do not take anyone’s rights away, whether they be trans or religious rights, and that we work in a balanced way. Have you experienced or seen anything out there that you can speak about with regard to balancing both sets of rights, whether it be to single-sex spaces or single-sex services?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Is there anything that you want to add, Dr Dietz?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Let me be very clear, Peter—I am in no way saying that it is trans people who are these bad-faith actors. Unfortunately there are such people out there—it is not the trans people. I am focusing on this, because people have asked the question. People might say that they are trans and use that, which is absolutely wrong, and these bad-faith actors might end up thinking that, if they have the GRC, they have something that they can use to go into these places. That is why I am asking about safeguards to ensure that we do not let these people in and that we are fair. In no way am I saying that any trans people are like that.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Okay. Could I hear from Barbara, please?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you, Cathy. Victor Madrigal-Borloz spoke about how the bill will bring lead to a process of legal recognition that is quick and widely available.

Do you perceive any ripple effects in the future from having more numbers coming through and having a process that is easier to access? Will it have more of an effect on other groups, whether they are minority religious groups or other groups? Do you forecast anything coming up that will open up more issues or around people sounding off about their concerns in relation to the bill?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you, Cathy. Victor—do you have anything to add on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

If you have any information on how we can balance those rights, it would be great for the committee to see it. It is about having that balance and respecting both sets of rights. From what we have heard, there are people who are feeling that, so we must make sure that we can achieve a balance. If there is anything that you can send to the committee, it would be very welcome.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

The committee has heard from many witnesses that they have a worry that the bill will exclude women and girls in minority groups from accessing single-sex services and spaces. What is your view on that, Barbara?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Professor Sullivan, on that point, do you know whether data on bad-faith actors is collected elsewhere or whether things have happened elsewhere? What about the concerns in relation to women of faith?