Chamber and committees

Thank you very much.

Good morning everyone. I am a Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party member of the Scottish Parliament for West Scotland.

Minister, before I turn to the cabinet secretary, I want to touch on what you have said. It is good to hear about the key three outcomes. “Policy”, “strategy” and “outcomes” are great words in a document, but what are you doing on the ground to ensure that women are not placed at a disadvantage, especially when it comes to employment? What is happening on the ground out there? How are we helping those women get into employment? What are we doing around care, housing and so on to do that? That work will not be in a silo; a number of departments will have to work with you on that. I am sure that women out there who are listening to this will want to hear what the Scottish Government is doing to help them get back into—or stay in—work.

Thanks for that response. You gave a lot of information there, but I want to go back to that last point. Although we welcome a lot of powers being given to local authorities, it is important for you to give an answer to Emma Congreve directly but also to everybody who is listening—and I am sorry to be so direct, but it is important—because this is taxpayers’ money. At our workshops last week and this week, we heard a lot about the different areas where people think that money spent could be more transparent and accountable. When it comes to human rights budgeting, who is accountable for ensuring that the money goes down that golden thread? Is it leadership, or is it people all the way down?

Thank you for clarifying that.

You said at the beginning that progress has been made. However, we have highlighted quite a lot of issues today, which we also spoke about last week in our private session. The system is clearly broken somewhere; there are cracks in the system that the Government needs to look at. That is why we are scrutinising the issue today—otherwise, we would not be here.

Today, we have heard that there are numerous issues with connections and accountability. It is for the Government to ensure that the leadership is there, but, as we have heard, that should flow right down to the councils. In what areas has progress been made with the Government? What is being done wrong? If the Government has made progress, why are we scrutinising the situation?

Good morning. Minister, on 25 February, you said in response to one of my questions:

“My role is not to make ministers’ decisions for them but to highlight those intersectionalities, to get them talking to one other and, more important, to get them to do that prior to making any decisions. That is the change of approach. I assure the committee that I am robustly challenging my colleagues to consider those things, to come out of our silos and to move towards that outcome rather than outcomes that are based on portfolios.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 25 February 2025; c 6.]

Has there been any progress on that and are ministers talking to one another to achieve the best possible outcomes? As we know, women are often faced with disadvantages when it comes to employment, which are often made worse by an unequal burden of family responsibilities. How are ministers working together to ensure that women are not placed at a disadvantage, especially when it comes to employment?

I also want to highlight some of the evidence that we took earlier. People commented that there is a lack of connections; that things do not feed into wider budgets; that some areas of human rights are understood and some are not; that things are not followed through in how resources are allocated; that greater connections and clarity are needed; and that people cannot follow the money and wonder what is being spent.

It is clear that those are issues, and the Scottish Government cannot ignore the cracks that are showing in the system. It is good that we have you here today to provide evidence on what you have been doing since 25 February, and what work you are doing on women being at a disadvantage, especially when it comes to employment. Last but not least—perhaps the cabinet secretary would like to answer this question—what would you say about the comments that were made today, especially about connectivity? I know that the cabinet secretary mentioned that silo work is still happening and that there is still more work to be done. It would be good to hear your response to the comments that we heard earlier.

Over to you first, minister.

Thank you. Cabinet secretary?

No, I am saying that the work should be done in consultation with them. My bill does not say who should provide that education; it sets out that the provision should be in place. I have put it in the bill that there must be consultation. Governments cannot make such decisions in isolation, just as teachers cannot make them alone. We need to get people to work together and to engage in consultation so that no one person makes a decision on how to tailor the programme.

I am not going to say what the programme should be called; I am simply calling it education. I have included that provision in the bill to ensure that it is available for all schools.

That is a good question. I mentioned in my opening statement and in my answer to the convener what happens with the disclosure scheme. It is a good scheme, and my bill would be working closely with it and with MAPPA. However, I have spoken to survivors, and I am aware that people who have been domestically abused but do not know about the scheme will not know that they can contact the police in that regard.

Although the police have some—I stress “some”—names of certain sex offenders and more serious offenders, my bill will bring out more extensive knowledge on people who will have to give that information, which the police will hold. That will better protect victims, because, at the moment, they do not know that they can contact anybody. We are making sure that the police contact them, based on the limited information and knowledge that they have. I mentioned earlier that 3,000 offenders would be added to MAPPA. That information will enable the police to act fast. We can save lives out there.

I have been speaking to survivors, and the disclosure scheme has been letting them down. Although, as I said, I respect it and believe that it works, we need that extra layer of protection. Knowledge is key to saving somebody’s life. That is why part 1 of the bill, on notifications, is important. We just cannot let people think that they can rely on saying, “Somebody is going save my life if I have been domestically abused.” We need more information and more knowledge out there, because the statistics are very high right now.

Charlie Pound might want to add to that.