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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 March 2026
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Displaying 2158 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Professor Alexis Jay and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

Okay—that is helpful.

I will turn to some of the points that I put to Professor Jay about where we are now and how we move forward, because I think that everybody would want to see work being done at pace; we have heard about that in some of the exchanges this morning.

Do you recognise that we now have a number of overlapping pieces of work? There is the child abuse public inquiry, which has been on-going for 10 years; I acknowledge your comments on that. We have a national review comprising four Government agencies: HM Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland, the Care Inspectorate, HM Inspectorate of Education in Scotland and Healthcare Improvement Scotland. On Monday, a lack of clarity was reported among those agencies about how they were going to be involved and what the terms of reference would be. That review will then, as I understand it, be reviewed by Professor Jay.

We have had a call for a further overarching review, which is not what the strategic review group is about. With regard to Government involvement in all this, we have had questions being answered in the chamber by the Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise; we have had answers from you; and we have heard from—and will hear from this afternoon—the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills.

Do you recognise why victims feel confused, at best, about who is responsible for getting to the heart of many of the issues? Do you recognise what Professor Jay said about that confusion?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Professor Alexis Jay and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

George Adam and Jackie Dunbar on this committee, as well as the First Minister and others, have referred to your career in social work, and you have referred to it this morning yourself—in particular, the 30 years that have passed since it started. There are obviously standards, values and principles for social workers that you will recognise: being accountable, taking responsibility and

“I must uphold public trust and confidence.”

You will have carried those values into the role that you currently hold. Do you feel that you have upheld those values and principles in this episode?

11:00  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Cross-portfolio Session

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

My intention was to ask questions on attainment in schools, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Professor Alexis Jay and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

Given the exchange we have just had, Professor Jay, is it your view that actually we need an independent review? You have previously called for that, alongside the work we have just discussed. If the Government were to ask you to lead such a piece of work, would you be open to that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Cross-portfolio Session

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

—while persistent absences are at about 28.5 per cent, which is well above the pre-Covid average of 21.8 per cent. Was that the ambition for recovery during this session of Parliament?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Cross-portfolio Session

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

On an associated point, will the minister join me in welcoming today’s news that the UK will rejoin Erasmus+, which provides opportunities for students across Scotland and the wider UK? That has happened within two years of the new UK Government being elected. Also, does the minister have any reflections on the progress that has been made over the past six years, during which we have only just reached the test-and-learn stage of the Scottish education exchange programme, which is the Scottish Government’s programme?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Professor Alexis Jay and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

This was remiss of me but, perhaps due to the early start of the meeting, I did not declare earlier that my husband is a practising social worker.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Professor Alexis Jay and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

Good morning, cabinet secretary. I will return to some of the points that were raised previously, not least by Willie Rennie, about the sequence of events and how we have got to this point, and—I think that it is fair to say—about your own hindsight.

It is important to note that Alexis Jay had to ask twice for clarification. Reflecting on that, do you regret that that had to happen twice to get to a point where there was clarity?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Professor Alexis Jay and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

I wonder if I can return briefly to the engagement between you and Scottish ministers. Prior to the statement that Angela Constance made in the chamber in reference to Liam Kerr’s amendment, did she or any other Scottish minister contact you at any point to ascertain your view on using that quote? I just want to check. At any point, did anyone contact you for your view on that?

09:15  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Professor Alexis Jay and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Paul O'Kane

I think that everyone would share that view about the importance of pace and of getting to the detail. That is why I was concerned to read on Monday reports that the four inspectorates were, to some extent, not aware of this review group or of the work that was going to be done and what they were going to be asked. Indeed, I think that the Care Inspectorate said that it learned of the group only when the cabinet secretary referred to it in the chamber. Is that your understanding?