Chamber and committees

We see those pressures every winter, and I take your point about elective surgeries. However, do you feel that the unusual circumstances of the pandemic and the cancellation of more and more elective surgery will create a problem for us at the other end of winter?

It is clear that a range of factors have contributed to the challenges around retention. Brexit is often cited as the key issue.

To pick up on what Annie Gunner Logan said, what mitigation work was done by the Scottish Government for care providers prior to Brexit? Was a detailed piece of work done to tackle what were perceived to be the challenges around staffing as a result of Brexit?

Thank you, minister. I will follow on from that point. We are meeting during COP26, and the climate change aspect of clean air is linked to the public health duty. The “Clear the air” report from Asthma UK and the British Lung Foundation highlighted the specific impact that poor air quality has on low income communities. I am keen to get a sense of what we are doing within the strategy to target those low income communities and areas of multiple deprivation, with regard to issues such as active travel and active transport.

I wonder if I might pivot on to a point that Colin Poolman raised. Everyone has spoken this morning about the challenges in retention. It is evidently a huge challenge to keep people in the system and to support people to remain in it. I am keen to understand from Colin Poolman whether he feels that the Scottish Government’s seasonal planning—the winter plan—has done much to support retention, particularly in nursing.

Thank you very much, convener. I appreciate that we are tight for time.

We are still living through the pandemic, and last winter was unprecedented. I am keen to understand how you feel about the lessons learned from last winter. Has the Government learned what worked and what did not work so well, and have those lessons been factored into the winter preparedness plan?

My question is also for Annie Gunner Logan. I have heard a lot about unpaid carers being in crisis because they feel that they cannot access the packages that they need or because they have been told by their local authority that their package will have to be scaled or cut back. In relation to care at home, that is the case not only for older people, but particularly for people who have learning disabilities. From the work that you do with providers and your survey work, do you have the sense that there is something of a crisis for unpaid carers, too?

I associate myself with the thanks given to all our vaccination staff as we acknowledge the vaccination milestone.

The Deputy First Minister referred in his statement to concerns about winter flu and the pressures of the flu season. The roll-out of the flu vaccine must go faster if we are to ensure that vulnerable Scots are not left unprotected this winter. In common with colleagues across the chamber, I have heard about issues for people who have respiratory problems but have not been called for their flu vaccine and people who provide transport for someone else in their household being unable to travel with them. Nursery staff in my region were told that they will not be vaccinated against flu in school along with the teaching staff because they work in a separate area of the school campus. Instead, they were told to make their own arrangements. Given the urgency of the situation, with the flu season approaching, will the Deputy First Minister tell me what percentage of people who are eligible will have received a flu jab by Christmas and provide a firm date by which he expects the most vulnerable people to be protected from flu before the onset of midwinter?

In response to Anas Sarwar’s question, the First Minister engaged on the Royal College of Nursing report that was published today, which shows that, this year, we have seen the highest ever shortfall in nursing, with more than 3,400 nursing vacancies.

With vague promises of only 1,000 health and care workers in the national health service, the winter plan scarcely begins to address the challenge. Nurses say that the shortfalls add to the significant pressure on them, which is why they are currently considering industrial action. When will the First Minister engage with the RCN’s demands to pay our nurses fairly, and when will she tell her cabinet secretary to fix his inadequate recovery plan?

I thank all the organisations that provided briefing material ahead of today’s debate. We have heard about the work of the Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland and the MS Society.

The creation of Social Security Scotland is testament to the power of devolution, and we want to use those powers and make sure that they have a real impact on people’s lives. I think that we have heard a degree of consensus on that in the chamber today.

The cabinet secretary began by talking about the human rights approach that we want, and we have heard from all around the chamber that a cross-party effort is required if we are to get it right. I hope that we will have further opportunities to discuss the matter in the chamber. Today, we will end our debate without having votes on a motion and amendments, but I think that it is important that we come back to the subject in order to allow Opposition parties to continue our scrutiny of the process in an effort to get the best possible outcomes from enabling people to access new benefits.

Today’s publication of the Scottish Government’s strategy has shown that there are gaps in knowledge about who is using our social security system and how we can encourage people to take up the benefits to which they are entitled. I will start by reflecting on the Scottish child payment, which my colleague Foysol Choudhury has just covered and which Pam Duncan-Glancy also spoke about.

The data that has been published shows that only 77 per cent of eligible households are accessing the Scottish child payment. That means that, even with further investment, we are not reaching almost a quarter of the families who are entitled to it. We know from organisations including the Child Poverty Action Group what we can and must do in order to reach that extra 23 per cent of eligible households. We must ensure that we invest in analysis of applications in order to identify better the families who are eligible. Data is key. With data in hand, the Scottish Government should be able to reach out to more families and put that money in their pockets. We know how crucial that is in respect of lifting more of Scotland’s young people out of poverty, as colleagues have said.

I think that we all agree that there is a need to invest more in the system. There is some consensus on the need to ensure that we have a system that works, that knows where people are and that seeks to meet them. With that in mind, although the strategy that has been published has some detail on what has come before, I am concerned that there is a lack of detail on the strategic approach to increasing benefit uptake under the new system.

The point that Alexander Stewart made about targeting priority groups is key in that regard. The point was echoed by Miles Briggs, who spoke about the support that is needed for various groups of people, including people who suffer from poor mental health who have been supported by the Scottish Association for Mental Health. More needs to be done to reach those groups, to find out what the barriers are and to work with them to ensure that they get access to their benefits.

A number of members spoke powerfully about stigma, which continues to be a significant barrier for people. I hope that the minister will say something about that in his summing-up speech.

Maggie Chapman and others mentioned the importance of automation in the benefits system. Automation has been a central priority for the Scottish Labour Party. We believe that automation would effectively overcome many of the significant barriers to take-up, which include lack of knowledge about entitlements. If an individual could make one claim that would automatically trigger their entitlement to other supports, that would have a hugely positive upward impact on take-up rates. Most important, it would also help to reduce and prevent poverty and to support people’s wellbeing.

Another key area that has been raised by the MS Society Scotland is issues surrounding the adult disability payment and ending of the 20m rule, which members from across the chamber, including Willie Rennie, Foysol Choudhury and Pam Duncan-Glancy, spoke about. The 20m rule is incompatible with a system that is based on dignity, respect and fairness. It is an archaic rule that stipulates that if a person can walk that distance, that justifies their not having access to the enhanced rate of mobility support. The rule harms people with disabilities—it takes money out of their pockets, which means that they lose their independence. Throughout the debate, we have heard that limiting a person’s independence and their ability to socialise, to go to work and to lead a more normal life has huge ramifications and impacts.

We have a lot more work to do when it comes to righting the wrongs of past systems and ensuring better uptake of benefits. Colleagues have spoken about the importance of availability of advocacy and advice; Marie McNair spoke about the importance of the role of local government in funding welfare rights and advice. I am sure that we all want advocacy and advice to be at the heart of the new system.

My colleague Mark Griffin spoke passionately about his member’s bill. I hope that the cabinet secretary will accept Mark’s offer of working in a spirit of partnership on that agenda. There must be further dialogue on that.

There is often a temptation to make this about the UK Government versus the Scottish Government—Westminster versus Holyrood. Some members strayed a little into that area this afternoon. However, what I have seen, and what Emma Roddick powerfully spelled out for us, is that it is about the importance of people’s lived experience and ensuring that we work together collectively to drive co-operation between the Governments to support those of our constituents who most need the support of social security.

I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of interests, which shows that I am a councillor in East Renfrewshire Council.

This afternoon, we are rightly debating the policy on 1,140 hours of funded early learning and childcare, but the title of the debate goes on to say “and Beyond”. I feel that it is most appropriate for us to focus our attention on the implementation of the current policy and fixing the issues that persist in delivering it, before the Government draws a line and moves into the beyond.

Our first priority must be ensuring that the planned expansion of childcare is embedded this year and that it delivers the flexibility that parents and families require. The 1,140 hours of free early learning and childcare is widely supported across the chamber and across Scotland. From research, we know about the benefits that it brings to children and families, particularly those who live in areas of multiple deprivation. I have seen at first hand the work done in family centres in communities such as Barrhead, Neilston and Thornliebank. In areas such as Auchenback and Dunterlie, I have seen the difference that can be made in developing children and supporting their families through creating anchor institutions that build trust and offer a holistic approach that meets people where they are.

I think in particular of the Sir Harry Burns centre in Auchenback, which is home to a wide range of learning and health opportunities for children and their families. The Arthurlie family centre nursery is based in the building, and activities and opportunities are available from various teams in the council and the health and social care partnership. Activities such as parenting workshops, breastfeeding cafes, speech and language outreach services, baby massage and baby sensory classes and the bookbug programme operate out of the centre every single day.

That is the model that I think of when we talk about expanding early learning and childcare—that is the quality that we all want to see in the expansion. However, the model was largely advanced before the wider agenda on 1,140 hours as a result of the council bringing together partners and developing through collaboration. Despite on-going cuts to local government budgets, councils are striving to deliver and innovate for our youngest citizens.

Early learning and childcare is about more than just the hours that are available; it is about the quality of inputs that children and young people receive and it is about supporting and regenerating communities. However, we know that that is not the experience in every community and that the Government has failed to deliver the planned expansion on time.

We have already heard reference to the impact of the pandemic, but the reality is that the Scottish Government had years before the pandemic to improve the offer on early learning and childcare and to work in meaningful partnership with local authorities to deliver. There are gaps in what has been possible for councils to deliver on the ground. Once again, a policy intention has been announced by the Government but with a lack of meaningful engagement with local authorities on the ground about how it will be delivered, particularly in the face of on-going budget cuts.