Chamber and committees

Since 2006, there has been a 44 per cent decrease in the number of bus routes across Scotland, and 190 routes have been cut in the past year alone. More than 83 per cent of passengers support the idea of Strathclyde Partnership for Transport implementing bus franchising across the region, which would allow for better oversight of fares, routes and timetables. What work is the Scottish Government doing to ensure that SPT has the necessary financial support to enable it to proceed with franchising?

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the decision by Strathclyde Partnership for Transport to progress with proposals for bus franchising. (S6O-05042)

As the cabinet secretary said, the No Knives, Better Lives programme has been successful. It has been credited with helping to reduce the number of young people who have been convicted of handling knives by 85 per cent since 2008. However, despite a recent increase in knife crimes, there has been a 12 per cent real-terms reduction in the funding of No Knives, Better Lives since 2022. In the forthcoming budget, will the cabinet secretary look at the issue again, reinstate the funding and consider what further the programme can do?

I am pleased to close the debate for Scottish Labour.

Many of the changes in part 1 of the bill were introduced during the pandemic, with the Scottish Government now seeking to make them permanent. Although we are generally supportive of that, we have some concerns about how far some provisions in the bill might extend.

We are particularly concerned about whether too many decisions will be left to the discretion of the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service and whether that service is properly resourced to deliver the changes set out in the bill. Although the Scottish Government has given assurances that there will be no overreach, we believe that monitoring will be necessary to ensure that the provisions do not in any way hinder justice.

It is clear that increased use of digital documents and evidence will be vital to modernising the court system. However, there is also a need to ensure that physical evidence can continue to be available in criminal cases if requested. Labour members made those arguments during today’s debate, as well as earlier in the bill process. Greater use of digital documents and evidence also raises questions about digital inclusion, which the Scottish Government must address. Audit Scotland has previously highlighted the fact that 15 per cent of adults lack foundational digital skills, such as knowing how to turn on a digital device, and the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations has called on the Scottish Government to publish a digital inclusion action plan.

Members have spoken about the bill’s provisions for virtual attendance at court proceedings. Those provisions were introduced temporarily during the pandemic and we believe that making them permanent will both increase their use and help to reduce the backlog that still exists in courts. Many victims groups, and the legal sector, have welcomed making virtual attendance a permanent feature of our court system. However, we urge the Scottish Government to do more to ensure that virtual attendance is always safe and free from interference. We accept that, regardless of whether the bill’s provisions on virtual attendance are absolutely and utterly watertight, the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service sees it as an inherent part of the system. Work needs to be done to ensure that locations offer a strong video and wi-fi connection and good picture quality. We heard evidence that that has been a problem in the courts over the past five years.

The Scottish Government must address the concerns of Scottish Women’s Aid and other organisations about the bill’s provisions on virtual attendance. Scottish Women’s Aid has argued that the provisions do not go far enough in protecting women, children and young people who experience domestic abuse. As has been said in the debate, I think, the committee did not look at that in detail during our scrutiny of the process. Even at this late stage, we need to give thought to it, and I am sure that the Scottish Government will be thinking about that as we move forward. I welcome the fact that the cabinet secretary has indicated clearly that she will engage with Scottish Women’s Aid and other organisations on the issues that they raise.

As well as increasing the use of virtual attendance, the bill seeks to allow cases in which a person appears from police custody to take place in any sheriff court in Scotland. We recognise that that could lead to savings in court costs—in particular, in the costs of transferring prisoners around the country. However, many organisations, such as the Law Society of Scotland, have rightly raised the importance of local justice. Those issues must also be given adequate consideration.

We welcome the creation in part 2 of the bill of a framework to review domestic homicides and suicides, and we agree with the comments that that has perhaps not had the scrutiny that it should have had, given that it deals with a gap in existing legislation and frameworks. We should remember that similar provisions already exist in England and Wales, and that the ways in which England and Wales deal with such things is very different. We recognise the vital work that victim support groups have played in developing the framework, but we also believe that we need to look closely at how reviews have worked in other jurisdictions in the UK.

We urge the cabinet secretary to address the issues that relate to membership of the proposed review oversight committee that have been raised by Scottish Women’s Aid—specifically, to ensure the proper representation of victim support groups, including those that deal on the front line with violence against women and girls.

We support the bill. We very much hope that its provisions will allow a modernisation of the courts that improves the experience of those who use them—victims and witnesses—and that will help to address the considerable backlogs that still exist. However, we also recognise that far wider issues surround the resourcing of our courts and the state of legal aid, so we remain concerned that, although some of the provisions are very welcome, a great deal more work needs to be done to address the significant backlogs in our courts system.

I will speak to my amendments 64 and 65. The bill will allow national jurisdiction in custody cases. It will allow individuals to appear from custody away from their local area and the part of the country where the alleged offence took place. During stages 1 and 2, concerns were raised about the loss of the judge’s local knowledge of a community or an accused. Those issues were raised by the Law Society of Scotland and the criminal justice committee of the Sheriffs and Summary Sheriffs Association, although I note that the cabinet secretary has indicated today that those issues have not been raised during the time that the emergency legislation has been in place.

My amendments would encourage communication with the local court in national jurisdiction cases. I do not intend to move the amendments and press them to a vote, but I have noted carefully what the cabinet secretary has said. I hope that, in the operation of the legislation, maximum communication will be encouraged to ensure that the interests of justice are served.

Amendment 4 agreed to.

Amendments 5 to 8 moved—[Angela Constance]—and agreed to.

Amendments 64 and 65 not moved.

After section 8

How much of the infrastructure to increase home detention, bail supervision, electronic monitoring and, indeed, victim notification will be in place by the time of the proposed releases? Given the high remand population, can the cabinet secretary say whether there is any sign that the new bail test is working? In addition, can she provide data on the reoffending levels further to the most recent set of releases? After the first set of releases, reoffending rates were very high, due to a lack of planning.

As the minister knows, response times are not the only issue. I understand from speaking to the fire service that one major concern is that the first appliance might arrive but it might not be possible for the crew to act because of the lack of a second or third appliance. Does the minister agree with me that, as well as response times, the reduction in the number of appliances is a major concern?

Scottish Labour has lodged the motion because the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is in a state of crisis. The Fire Brigades Union Scotland has been warning for years about the devastating impact of underinvestment in our Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and about the threats that we are now facing after years of cuts and failure by the Scottish Government to deliver investment.

Over the past 13 years, 1,250 firefighters’ jobs have been lost, which represents more than a sixth of the total workforce. That figure includes 729 whole-time operational firefighters and 368 retained operational firefighters. Those are direct cuts to vital, life-saving front-line services. The number of volunteer firefighters has also reduced by 35 per cent, which negatively impacts on emergency cover in many of our remote and rural communities. In control rooms, there has been a 26 per cent reduction in staff—staff who are vital in handling calls and supporting individuals in emergencies, including those that pose a risk to life.

When I met FBU Scotland yesterday, its representatives laid out the impact of those job losses on response times. Average response times have increased from six minutes and 51 seconds to eight minutes and 20 seconds. Every second counts when waiting for a response from the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. The FBU fears that, without the investment that is needed in the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, response times could eventually reach more than 10 minutes.

Response times to incidents that pose a risk to life have also increased. In 2016, the average response time to such incidents stood at around seven minutes and 30 seconds. Last year, it stood at eight minutes and 50 seconds. In such situations, when there is a risk to life, every minute counts.

In control rooms, job losses have contributed to an increase in call-handling times. Call-handling times for incidents that pose a risk to life have increased from one minute and 10 seconds in 2016 to one minute and 32 seconds. Staffing levels in control rooms are generally considered to be inadequate and regularly fall below agreed safe levels.

FBU Scotland is calling on the Scottish Government to commit to no further cuts to firefighter numbers. I urge the minister to give such a commitment today. Since its creation in 2013, the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has faced cuts of tens of millions in funding from the Scottish Government. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service resource budget for this financial year stands at £332.1 million, which represents a real-terms cut of more than £56 million in the past 12 years.

Sustained underinvestment in our fire capital budget has also led to a capital backlog of more than £800 million, and many fire stations are no longer fit for purpose. The fire service has estimated that £80 million per year would be needed to improve the condition of fire stations and control rooms. FBU Scotland is calling for increased and sustainable real-terms investment in the service from the Scottish Government. Ahead of this year’s budget process, I urge the minister to engage with the firefighters’ union, with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and with firefighters across Scotland.

The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service’s service delivery consultation recently closed, with more than 3,500 responses. The consultation outlined several options, including changes to fire cover, the permanent withdrawal of 10 appliances and the closure of 13 fire stations.

Rachael Hamilton makes her point well, and I agree.

The plans that have been outlined would further damage the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and add to the negative impact that underinvestment and cuts have already had. Fire cover would change across Scotland, including in rural areas, but also in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee and Dunfermline. In my region—West Scotland—fire cover would be affected at the Milngavie, Inverclyde and Helensburgh stations, and in many other parts. Let us be clear that those changes to fire cover would lead to increased response times.

The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service board is set to decide on the consultation proposals by late December. Although it is the board that will ultimately decide, we should remember that the board members are appointed by the Scottish Government, and the Minister for Victims and Community Safety is ultimately accountable to the Parliament for the delivery and provision of fire and rescue services. After the board makes its decision in December, MSPs must have adequate time and opportunity to scrutinise and debate any proposed changes, especially as those changes are set to have a negative impact on service delivery if some of the proposals proceed—particularly due to the likely increases in response times. I therefore call on the minister to commit today to a debate in Government time, to ensure that Parliament gets its opportunity to have a say on any proposals.

I am sure that other colleagues will pick up the many other issues that I could have raised in this debate on fire and rescue services, but I will conclude by thanking Scottish firefighters for their vital work in keeping our communities safe. I pay tribute to all our firefighters, and particularly to Barry Martin and Ewan Williamson—two brave firefighters who lost their lives while on duty. We owe it to them and to all of Scotland’s firefighters to ensure that Scotland’s Fire and Rescue Service gets the investment that it needs. I therefore hope that the Parliament will support Scottish Labour’s motion.

I move,

That the Parliament expresses concern at the cuts proposed by the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (SFRS); recognises the Cuts Leave Scars campaign, which was set up in 2023 in response to a decade of underfunding by the Scottish Government; notes the loss of over 1,250 firefighter jobs across Scotland since the establishment of the SFRS in 2013, leading to pumps being unavailable as a result of too few firefighters to crew them; regrets that, as a result of cuts, call handling times have increased in control rooms and response times have increased from 6 minutes and 51 seconds to 8 minutes and 20 seconds, which risks lives in Scotland; notes with concern the plans to close 13 stations and permanently withdraw 10 appliances, and encourages the Scottish Government to work alongside the SFRS and the Fire Brigades Union Scotland to ensure that there are no further cuts to firefighter numbers or fire cover and that safe crewing levels are guaranteed.

Will the minister be addressing the concerning increases in response and call-handling times?