Chamber and committees

I lodged amendment 23 having worked with campaigners who are suffering from debilitating chronic pain and life-altering injury after undergoing a mesh procedure.

Members will be aware of previous debates about transvaginal mesh and the detrimental impact that it has had on many lives. The mesh that is used in procedures such as hernia operations is different, but a significant number of people who have had hernia mesh procedures are experiencing health issues that are similar to those that were faced by women who were implanted with transvaginal mesh.

I have been contacted by a number of women and men who are affected. However, the lack of data means that we cannot establish the true scale of the issue. I have tried to gather data on the issue by submitting freedom of information requests to every health board in Scotland. I wanted to know the number of patients with a hernia who were treated with surgical mesh and who were subsequently readmitted to hospital because of complications arising from the mesh. Most health boards did not provide that information, but those that did supplied data that is concerning. NHS Ayrshire and Arran revealed that 8 per cent of all patients with a hernia who were treated with surgical mesh were subsequently readmitted to hospital because of complications arising from the mesh. In NHS Lanarkshire, that figure rose to 10 per cent.

Campaigners such as my constituents Roseanna Clarkin and Lauren McDougall have sought meetings with successive ministers to discuss an independent review of the use of surgical mesh and fixation devices in the national health service. So far, ministers have refused to meet those campaigners or to recognise the need for an independent review. I hope that my probing amendment will enable the minister to reconsider the issues and the need for a meeting, and to look at the case for an independent review.

Amendment 23 would require the patient safety commissioner to undertake an investigation into the use of surgical mesh within the first year of their appointment. The purpose of the investigation would be threefold: it would establish the scale of use of surgical mesh to treat hernias; it would provide data on the number of patients with a hernia that was treated using mesh who have subsequently been readmitted to hospital because of complications arising from the mesh; and it would outline the number of complaints that health boards have received from patients about complications arising from mesh and the details of those complications. The patient safety commissioner would then be expected to reach a conclusion on whether NHS Scotland should suspend the use of surgical mesh to treat hernias.

I do not intend to press amendment 23 to a vote today, but I will listen carefully to what the minister says. I hope that she will engage with people who have been affected, look into the issues further and explore the need for an independent review.

I move amendment 23.

To ask the Scottish Government whether it has carried out an impact assessment of the reported withdrawal of appliances by the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service from stations across the country. (S6T-01438)

Responses to freedom of information requests show that about 45 per cent of the fire service estate is assessed as being in a poor or bad condition, and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service chief officer cited a £630 million backlog in the service’s capital budget. Will the Scottish Government commit to an emergency funding package for the fire service?

I welcome this opportunity to raise issues in the chamber relating to women prisoners in Scotland and to express my thanks to members who have signed the motion to enable the debate to take place.

My motion refers to the closure of Cornton Vale women’s prison and the opening of the smaller HMP Stirling for women. Of course, historically, Cornton Vale housed all of Scotland’s women prisoners, but there are now a number of prisons with women’s wings across Scotland. Cornton Vale closed earlier this year, with women’s prisoners being transferred to other establishments.

The 2012 review by former Lord Advocate Elish Angiolini described conditions at Cornton Vale prison as “antediluvian” and “appalling”. Recently, members of the Criminal Justice Committee visited the new Stirling prison and we were impressed by what we saw. The original proposal in the Angiolini review was for there to be a smaller number of units for women across Scotland, with a greater focus on support and rehabilitation. Last year, two custody units were opened—one with 24 places for women, in Maryhill in Glasgow, and one with 16 places for women, in Dundee. We are advised that those new facilities have been occupied, at best, at only 52 per cent capacity since opening, and representations have been made to the Scottish Government to ask that the criteria for admission be expanded. We understand that the Scottish Prison Service is looking at the issue and I would be grateful for an update on that from the minister today. I am sure that the minister will agree that we would wish these new state-of-the-art facilities at Stirling, Dundee and Maryhill to be fully utilised.

I am grateful to Michael Marra for his intervention and welcome the fact that he has already paid a visit to the Bella centre. I agree that we must look closely at what happens there. A huge amount of public money has been invested in those facilities, which have been established as a result of work that has been carried out over many years and as a result of recommendations in the 2012 report that I referred to earlier. Therefore, as well as reviewing what happens in those places, we need to ensure that they are fully utilised and that all the places are made available to the women who can benefit from them.

The Scottish Government’s stated intention is to transition towards a trauma-informed approach to justice, and I support that evidence-based approach, particularly in relation to women offenders. However, I have to say that I am concerned about the gulf between policy and practice.

The closure of Cornton Vale gives us a good opportunity to reflect on women’s offending, how we deal with that as a society and the patterns of sentencing. I have to say that the Scottish Government’s policy on women offenders is very similar to the one that was adopted by Scottish Labour in Government. That was quite a number of years ago, so I think that we need to reflect on why it has been so difficult to deliver in practice the policy that politicians have set out.

We know that women make up a small percentage of the overall prison population, but, proportionally, Scotland has one of the largest female prison populations in Europe. There are approximately 300 women in custody in Scotland, and the numbers seem to be increasing. We also know from Scottish prison statistics that that is not because women in Scotland are committing more violent offences than women in other countries, but because Scotland has a different approach to women’s offending.

It has been announced that fire appliances will be withdrawn temporarily from Greenock fire station and nine other stations across Scotland. The Scottish Fire and Rescue service estimates that it needs to make £36 million in cuts. Surely the current wildfires show that we need to build resilience in our fire service, not cut it.

Yes, I believe that, for many prisoners, and for women prisoners in particular, it would be better to spend the considerable amount of money that it costs to incarcerate them on interventions that might be less costly and more effective.

The new establishments will house only a minority of women prisoners unless we significantly reduce the overall numbers of women in custody in Scotland. We know that, overall, Scotland’s prison population is the highest in Europe, and that our remand figures are also significantly higher than those in other European countries. That is the case in both the men’s estate and the women’s estate: the remand rate in the men’s estate is currently around 29 per cent to 30 per cent, and the latest figure that we were given in relation to the remand rate for women’s prisoners is higher than that, at 39 per cent.

If we look at the pattern of offences, we can see that women account for different kinds of convictions from men, and we see relatively higher proportions of convictions for crimes such as shoplifting and fraud among the female prison population. It is fair to say that most women prisoners present less risk to society. However, obviously, they have challenges themselves and also present challenges to society, and, often, they will be in chaotic circumstances that are difficult for society to manage. Sheriffs have often said that they find it difficult to know what to do with women and will remand women as it is unclear what alternatives are available.

The low number of women offenders means that there are often fewer alternatives to custody available for women than there are for men. We need to focus on robust alternatives to custody, which are both more effective and cheaper. As I say, often, at the moment, those alternatives do not exist.

Custodial sentences can be blunt instruments. Only this week, a woman in England received a custodial sentence for procuring an illegal late-term abortion. We know that the offences that women who are convicted of murder are convicted of often relate to abusive partners, so offending patterns tend to be different among women prisoners.

Research from abroad and practices in places such as Scandinavia show that those countries have fewer women in custody and that they take a less punitive approach that emphasises rehabilitation. For example, community supervision and electronic monitoring are widely used in countries such as Sweden in relation to cases in which we would put somebody in prison.

For the most part, the types of models that are being adopted in other European countries are not available in Scotland, even though we know that only about 40 per cent of women who are charged are charged with a violent offence. We also know that women prisoners are vulnerable, are more likely to have suffered violence or sexual abuse, have caring responsibilities or are mothers. Recent research has also shown that many have repeated head injuries or, indeed, significant health issues.

I believe that there is a consensus in this Parliament that remand figures are too high and that we need to refocus the justice system, particularly for women offenders, and I warmly welcome all who are here today in the chamber and look forward to their contributions.

I will ask about workplace issues. We previously heard a lot of evidence about the difficulties with recruitment and retention that are linked to pay and conditions and, indeed, even to the remuneration of those who are running small—[Inaudible.]. Today, we have heard further evidence on some of the other financial struggles that the sector faces. What do you think the Scottish Government do about that?

On the point that Beverley is making, which she covered in the First 4 Kids submission, does she have any proposals for how some of those ideas could be taken forward—in relation to people who are working in childcare also having roles as classroom assistants, for example? Does she have any practical suggestions about that?

I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests.

I thank Mark Ruskell for bringing this debate to the chamber and for highlighting in his motion the role of buses in tackling the climate emergency. We need to deliver a modal shift from cars and planes to public transport such as buses. However, as I am sure Mark Ruskell agrees, our current efforts to do that are inadequate. Graham Simpson has spoken about the limited bus services that are available in many parts of Scotland, and he mentioned the local campaigns throughout the country for better bus services. We need to encourage people to use buses, and the Scottish Government needs to do more to promote the use of the existing bus network.

I fully agree with the spirit of the motion and with Mark Ruskell’s speech. We need an affordable, reliable public bus service that tackles inequalities, supports the economy and helps to deliver Scotland’s climate aims.

The motion focuses on the community transport pilots that have been introduced and on bus passes for young people, which, of course, I warmly welcome, as I welcome all the other initiatives that have been introduced to encourage bus use. However, we need to be more ambitious and we must encourage the use of buses and significantly expand our bus network if we are to make buses the choice that people make.

Our current model is broken. Since the 1980s, when Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative Government deregulated buses, we have been left with an expensive, unreliable, fragmented and dysfunctional bus system that is slowly following apart. The Scottish Government seems to accept that the privatisation of rail did not work—although I note what John Mason said—so it is not clear why it thinks that a privatised model works better for buses. It may well be that the minister agrees with me on that point. I believe that this debate is not just about public interest; it is also about public sector ownership and control.

Between 1995 and 2020, fares rose by 58 per cent in real terms, and, since 2007, we have seen a 52 per cent reduction in bus journeys. Those are long-term trends that we are dealing with. As we all know, private operators throughout Scotland are cutting lifeline bus services—every MSP will know of examples of that in their local area. In North Ayrshire, services have been cut from the Garnock valley to Glasgow and from Irvine and the three towns, with the use of transport hubs at Prestwick, Irvine and Kilmarnock, which is significantly increasing transport times.

We need the Scottish Government to come forward with a plan to significantly expand the bus network. I believe that that includes capping fares to encourage people to use buses, and it also involves bringing buses under local control by enabling the expansion of the municipal provision of bus services—I say to John Mason that I do not believe that it is a coincidence that Lothian Buses is considered to provide the best-value service in Scotland.

The Transport (Scotland) Act 2019 gives the power to local authorities and transport authorities to set up municipal bus companies, but we now need the regulation to enable such municipal bus companies to become a reality.

It is true to say that we need more resources—we need to find a range of ways to increase funding—but I think that the point that has been made about conditionality highlights the fact that the significant investment that the Scottish Government has made in the privatised bus network has not always represented the best use of public funds.

I very much look forward to the further contributions to this debate.