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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 July 2025
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Displaying 984 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Katy Clark

I have another question for Lynsey Smith. In your contribution, you said that your view was that the status quo could not continue. Our understanding of how the national care service will work is that, unlike the national health service, it will not actually provide a service or employ any staff. A lot of us who campaigned for a national care service were campaigning for a body that would provide a service, which would employ staff directly and provide a high quality of service. Our understanding of how the national care service will work is that it will commission services and, effectively, put out tenders.

I will ask COSLA about this in a minute, but I have been told by people in local government that it is unlikely that many councils will participate in the process, because of their own financial situations. When you say that the status quo cannot continue, what are your reasons for saying that? Is the top reason the funding?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Katy Clark

I have a question about body-worn cameras for the police. Police Scotland has told us that funding would ensure only 500 body-worn cameras, that specialist police arms officers in Scotland would have them and that a flat rate settlement would inhibit their roll-out.

As the cabinet secretary knows, in England and Wales, police officers already have that kit—and, indeed, are moving on to the second generation. Will you outline where you are on that issue, what discussions are taking place and whether you are looking at something beyond 500 and ensuring that the whole force is equipped?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Katy Clark

I have a brief question on the capital budgets and the modernisation of the prison service. We have heard some evidence that, to put it crudely, newer prisons are cheaper than older prisons. Have you considered that? Is there a business case for capital investment in that it will help budgets in the future?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Katy Clark

But is that the top problem at the moment—a lack of funding or resource?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Katy Clark

It has come through clearly from all the witnesses that you feel that there is a lack of detail in the proposals. Obviously, the bill is an enabling piece of legislation, so there is not a huge amount of detail in it in general, but it gives ministers significant powers to create a new way of providing a service. It has been said that the inclusion of the sectors that we are discussing is overreach, given that they were not included in the Feeley report. Do you agree with that assessment?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Katy Clark

Reflecting on the comments made by other witnesses, what does Unison feel are the major problems in this sector at the moment?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Katy Clark

I appreciate that you are speaking for COSLA and that, because we do not have any detail, it is very difficult for you to respond. If the model was a commissioning model and if responsibility was taken away from local government, such that local authorities would have to enter into a tendering exercise, could there be a risk that local government, or at least some councils, might not get involved in that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Katy Clark

You have said very clearly that some people have to be in prison because the nature of their offence or their violent nature means that they must be incarcerated. We all accept that that is the case and that there is a need for prisons, but I think that we also believe that there are people in prison who should not be there. We have been trying to get data on that so that we can better understand who is in prison and what they are there for.

How good is our data? The committee is very interested in having the data so that we can take a view on what could be achieved by looking at other disposals, although it is clear that there are some people for whom the only possible disposal is incarceration.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Katy Clark

When we spoke to judges, they said that women prisoners, and particularly women appearing from custody, are given custodial sentences for almost paternalistic reasons. The judges do not know what else to do. They are not convinced that prison is the right way to deal with a particular woman offender but—

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Katy Clark

That is helpful to know.