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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 July 2025
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Displaying 1537 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Portfolio Question Time

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Katy Clark

I welcome the cabinet secretary’s announcement today. As she is well aware, it was agreed seven years ago that Ardrossan would continue as the main port to Arran, and it has been clear for a number of years that Peel Ports, as the owner, seems to be the obstacle. Labour in North Ayrshire has been calling for municipal ownership or a form of public ownership in order to break the logjam.

Has the cabinet secretary now come to the conclusion that it will not be possible to conclude a deal with Peel, or is she continuing to consider that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

You are saying that, in relation to the proposed legislation, you believe that there is a gap in domestic homicide and suicide reviews, but there might be some cases in which that work has already been done so a review will not be needed, and that will be taken into account in deciding whether a referral is made. I understand the resource points that you are making. I fully understand those and I am more than sympathetic to them. I have listened carefully and I am extremely concerned, as I am sure we all are. However, if there is a gap, the Parliament needs to decide whether to legislate. Emma, will you comment on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

That suggests that you are asking us to look at the circumstances in which a referral is made. You are saying that there might be situations in which there is no need for a full review process because there have been many multilayered reviews that have already captured much of that information. Are you saying that we need to be aware of that and look at whether the bill delivers on it? Is that fair?

11:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

I will come to Fiona first, if that is okay, to ask about the role of families in the process, because the way that I have become involved in individual cases has almost always been through families. Those who are left behind often have a huge amount of knowledge of what has happened. How do you envisage that families would be involved in the process?

Given that the proposal is for anonymity—I understand that that is how it operates in Wales—to what extent do you think there should be full disclosure with families? Dr Scott made a point about the situation in which the perpetrator is or may be a family member, which is a slightly different situation. In a situation in which there is no suggestion that the family are in any way involved, how do you see the role of families in the process? What would you recommend?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

Beyond that, you think that the process should be anonymous and that those who have access to the report should be highly restricted. Is that the conclusion that you have come to?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

I ask Marsha Scott to come in on that as well.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

You have all made the case very strongly about the resource and financial pressures on the system, in local government and health and across the public sector. You have also made a powerful case in relation to duplication. It seems to me that the multilayered review system, as you describe it, exists in some cases—we perhaps need to deal with that—but there are other situations where that is not a feature. An example is the situation, as we understand it, in relation to Fiona Drouet’s daughter. I am involved in a case where, as far as I am aware, there is no review process. There are cases where there are no drugs issues, or no children are involved, or there is no social work involvement already. Is it fair to say that we need to look at those scenarios in different ways?

The committee’s role is to scrutinise what is in the bill. I appreciate and completely understand that you are not draftspeople, but are you saying that, in terms of the policy that we are trying to achieve, we perhaps need to ensure that those different scenarios are dealt with in different ways, in the bill and in the regulations that will come thereafter? Are you saying that you accept that there is a gap that needs to be addressed, but that there are other situations where there are already a range of review processes?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

Is it your understanding from all the meetings that you have been to that the policy intention is to have a review in every case where there is a death that meets the definition?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

I do not know a lot of the detail of how the process operates in Wales or the role of families there. Have you been able to look at that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

I presume that your view is that the report and other information should be shared with families and that there should be disclosure with families. Is that fair?