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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 September 2025
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Displaying 1550 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

As Maggie Chapman will be well aware, one of the issues is what happens in the court. That is complicated, because different interests and individuals are involved in that process. As the cabinet secretary will be well aware, any proposal on representation in court involves an awful lot of detailed work with the different parts of the court process, and that work has been happening in relation to the very limited form of independent legal representation that is proposed in the bill. Does Maggie Chapman agree that the report that she proposes could scope out some of that and look at where there might be further representation?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

The principle behind the amendment is that it should be clear to a complainer where to go and that there should be a named person or persons from whom they would be able to get information. Does the cabinet secretary believe that that principle is incorporated in the work that she advises is on-going?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

I look forward to considering that in more detail before stage 3.

Has the cabinet secretary looked at the likely costs of the pilot? Will she be able to provide that detail today or, if she cannot do so, after this meeting, so that we have a better understanding of the pilot’s scope and whether it will be available to women throughout Scotland to opt into or will be only in, say, the Glasgow area?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

The cabinet secretary spoke about hierarchy as a negative—she said that we should not have a hierarchy. As Pauline McNeill knows, at the moment, the people with experience of hearing rape and sexual assault cases are High Court judges, and one concern is that we are moving towards a situation in which sheriffs would hear rape or serious sexual assault cases. That may be a good idea or a bad idea, but it is not a concept that we have scrutinised.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

I will not press amendment 68. I have listened carefully to what the cabinet secretary said, particularly about the pilot that has been proposed. I would like to hear more about that before stage 3. That sounds like a positive development, so I will not press amendment 68 or move amendment 64, but I may bring them back at stage 3.

Amendment 68, by agreement, withdrawn.

Amendment 265 moved—[Maggie Chapman].

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

I intend to withdraw my—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

I thank the member for his intervention. As I was saying, I intend to withdraw amendment 65 and not move my other amendments in this group, given that the Scottish Government has decided not to proceed with its very controversial proposals, which, I would argue, were not evidence based. I was surprised by some of what the cabinet secretary said, in that my understanding is that we were not presented with evidence that judge-only trials led to different outcomes. It is a very wide debate and we have to put the interests of victims at the centre of the process. I am pleased that the Scottish Government has not proceeded with the proposals, given their controversial nature. I therefore do not intend to proceed with my amendments.

12:45  

Amendment 65, by agreement, withdrawn.

Amendment 66 not moved.

Amendment 53 moved—[Russell Findlay]—and agreed to.

Section 66—Report on section 65 pilot

Amendment 54 moved—[Russell Findlay]—and agreed to.

Before section 67

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

I appreciate the cabinet secretary’s points about drafting, but the principle is about communication from the prosecution and the Crown, whether that is the advocate depute or procurator fiscal. Does she support that principle? It is very much being introduced now, as she will be aware.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Katy Clark

Will the cabinet secretary outline how the pilot will differ from the proposal in amendment 68? I appreciate that the pilot would not have a statutory footing, but would all the principles that are outlined in amendment 68—including the evaluation and the approach—be incorporated in the pilot?