Chamber and committees

From recollection, the update report was in March last year, then there was a follow-up around October.

I absolutely welcome the fact that this issue is being talked about. However, the Scottish Police Federation makes some quite worrying points about the position of Police Scotland, which it describes as

“defensive, in denial and suggests ‘nothing to see here’.”

That chimes with my experience of trying to raise a number of cases of suicide of police officers, where we have established that none were the subject of fatal accident inquiries. Police Scotland does not record the numbers of deaths, let alone carry out any form of inquiry into them. In their responses, Police Scotland and the SPA still do not seem to be addressing that.

I know that it is uncomfortable, but the officers and former officers who have come forward to me who have either considered taking their own lives or attempted to take their own lives, or the families of those who indeed have taken their own lives, all draw direct links to the officer’s experience of the lack of support from the police. We are talking about issues that are due to what police officers have experienced or, even worse, to protracted regulatory or disciplinary processes that they feel were unfair or unjust to the point at which they were in such dire straits and such a desperate mental state that they believed that suicide was the only option.

As shocking as that is, in many of these cases, the individuals made their feelings known to Police Scotland. If we think back to when the issue first arose at the committee a couple of years ago, the responses from Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Authority set alarm bells ringing. For all that they appear to say all the right things about consideration of the wellbeing of officers, which is great, they are falling well short of acknowledging the scale of the damage that has been done, which could yet cause serious problems.

On action plans, we have a response from the Crown Office explaining that none of the cases has been subject to a fatal accident inquiry. Is there any mechanism that we can explore to give an officer who has died from suicide the same rights as someone who has died in custody and who is therefore automatically subject to a fatal accident inquiry? In the cases that I am aware of, such an inquiry would highlight serious issues about the pressure that those officers were under. I do not want to point fingers or lay blame, but I want us to realise how serious the situation is and learn from it. If we do a superficial exercise, nothing will change.

I have a slightly different point to raise on the remand issue. The box on page 13 begins by saying that

“Remand numbers are not falling significantly”,

but it ends by saying that

“the number of people held on remand has fallen by 9%”

within 12 months. Arguably, that is a significant fall. Perhaps the opening line could be reworded to be a bit less subjective. “Remand numbers remain steady” or something like that might be better.

Okay. The reason why I think that my question is relevant is that it goes to the heart of where we are now. The Prison Service is conducting a review. If senior politicians in the governing party all give different answers to a very basic question about this particular offender, that is germane to the issue. Cabinet secretary, if you are not prepared to answer the question, that is fine and I can move on, but I can give you another opportunity, if you like.

Okay. Who is right in terms of definition?

When did you find out that this particular prisoner had been sent to a women’s prison?

Once the transfer became known about, you initially defended the decision. The following day, the First Minister announced that the prisoner was being removed. Do you now regret defending the decision initially?

The issue is what the cost will be, and from when that will apply.

I have two observations about what has been said so far and two quick points to make.

Katy Clark is bang on in respect of the fire service. The acting chief fire officer told us that he needed something like £0.5 billion just to bring infrastructure up to standard as a result of year after year of not having enough money to do so.

I also totally understand Jamie Greene’s point. Although the cabinet secretary did not state that it was his intent to reduce police numbers, that may nonetheless be the outcome. I think that we have agreed a way to deal with that.

I have a point about the Scottish Police Authority. The cabinet secretary said that there is £45.5 million

“for investment in police assets including the estate, fleet and technology.”

That is not a lot of money to pay for all of that.

In December, Police Scotland said that it would finally be rolling out body-worn cameras for its officers. Police Scotland is the only force in the United Kingdom not to have such cameras—except for a few hundred for specialist firearms officers.

I want to understand that. That was described in the media as a £20 million programme over five years. Does it follow that, in 2023-24, £4 million will go towards providing body-worn cameras? I would like some clarity on the speed with which the body-worn cameras will be delivered, because that is crucial to helping police officers primarily but also to public confidence. It would be worth getting a breakdown of the numbers and an explanation. I know that spending that money is an operational decision, but the media stuff is not very clear.

My second point is about the Scottish Prison Service. As far as I can see, there is no reference whatsoever to the fact that HMP Kilmarnock is now, or is on the cusp of becoming, under the direct control of the Government, with all the costs associated with that, and that HMP Addiewell is about to follow. The cabinet secretary’s response mentions the

“costs of private sector contracts”,

but I do not know whether that means contracts such as the one that we touched on for the provision of food and dairy produce to prisoners. Running HMP Kilmarnock and HMP Addiewell will end up costing a huge sum of money. There will be staff costs, the responsibility for infrastructure and maintenance, and staff pensions. It would be useful to know where that money will come from and how much that will cost.

If it needs to be acted on now, can we do that just now?