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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 September 2025
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Displaying 2021 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Independent Review of the Skills Delivery Landscape

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning—I think that it still is morning. Thank you for answering our questions so far and for the work that you have put into your report. I will start with questions that are on the same theme that we have already discussed—leadership and reform—and then I will move on to funding. How will the Scottish Government taking responsibility for skills planning bring about the required culture change?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning, and thank you for the answers that you have given so far. The description that you have given us of education in your areas and the parts that you are responsible for sounds exciting—that is definitely the future that we should be gearing towards.

I want to pick up on a couple of the points that we have heard so far. Graham Hutton, in your opening remarks, you said that the status quo cannot continue, and Pauline Walker mentioned that it was having a significant impact on pupils from poorer backgrounds. Can you tell us what it is about the status quo that is causing the problem for people from poorer or disadvantaged backgrounds? What in the reforms would change that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I thank both of you for those comprehensive answers. Do you think that the current reforms will get us to where we need to be?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Independent Review of the Skills Delivery Landscape

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

It does—I appreciate that. In a similar vein, do you agree with Universities Scotland that some of the changes that you have suggested, including those that you have just described, can happen without legislative change? What decisions could be taken now around funding work-based learning or upskilling and reskilling, without legislative change?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 8 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you for your candour, particularly in your recent answers. There is no greater need than the need to do something about the inequality that Dr Shapira and others made points on. I will move on to that now. As I said to the cabinet secretary yesterday, one reason why I think that reform is so important is that the attainment gap so stubbornly remains.

I have another question before I go into detail on that, although this is related. Is there a risk that, without examination at SCQF level 5, there is more pressure on pupils at highers? Given what you said, Dr Shapira, how will that affect our poorest students?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 8 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

No problem. I probably waffled a little bit as well. The specific question is this: is there a risk that, without examination at SCQF level 5, there is more pressure on pupils at highers? What would the impact of that be on poorer students?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 8 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Dr Shapira, do you want to come back in?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 8 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. The interconnectedness of each part of the system and that lifelong linear learning that you described is crucial. Thank you for those answers.

I go back to the point about socioeconomic disadvantage. Dr Shapira, in your paper you note that the curriculum is narrowing and that that is socially stratified and has disproportionately affected students from disadvantaged backgrounds. Why is that? What would you change? How might that be affecting the attainment gap?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 8 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

When you say the “type of curriculum” that they are being exposed to, do you mean the subjects that they are being presented with and their assessment as opposed to looking at who is attaining what at the other side of it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 8 November 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I do, convener, if that is okay. Good morning. Thank you for the answers that you have given so far and for the information that you submitted in advance, which has been helpful.

Dr Shapira, I want to pick up your point about whole subjects being abandoned and, particularly, on the point that, contrary to the aspiration of curriculum for excellence, fewer subjects are now being studied. As you have said in your report, there has been a decline in social subjects like arts and modern languages. Why do you think that is the case? What do we need to do about it?