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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 September 2025
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Displaying 2062 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

In the interests of brevity, I will leave it there.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I accept the technical detail that the minister has set out, which states that there is a mechanism. I accept that there is a mechanism. I do not believe, on the basis of what I have seen since I have been in this place, which is from May 2021, that such commitments have ever come to fruition, so I will wait and see, and I hope that the mechanisms that are in the regulations will be used to support people who live in Glasgow.

I take the point about the average weather in the city over the past 10 years, but I share the concerns about how the data is collected and the weather stations from which it is collected. I was making the point that we have an opportunity to change the whole way in which we do things in Scotland. The offer in front of the people of Scotland is insufficient and it will leave thousands of families freezing this winter.

Convener, I will abstain on the motion for all those reasons.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Will the member take an intervention on that point?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

As we discussed, the rate is £50, and, at the current rate of heating costs, that would probably heat a house for six days, as I said. Will you set out why specifically it is £50? In line with costs, the payment should be £125. What do you say about that to people who are struggling with their bills?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

First, I am not sure whether the minister has been outside in Glasgow in the past few days. We are heading for a very cold period. We will wait and see what happens with the weather.

Regardless of that, it is important to make clear that you are offering people in Glasgow—36 per cent of whom live in fuel poverty—£1 a week. The Scottish Government had an opportunity to redesign a fuel payment—a winter heating allowance—that could have a genuine impact on fuel poverty. I do not think that anyone who looks at its offer will think that it has achieved that. I do not think that they will accept that.

10:45  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Do you think that £1 a week is sufficient to address that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

On that basis, do you support my Westminster colleagues’ argument that we should have a proper windfall tax, with no loopholes, on those energy companies?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning, minister, and good morning to your officials. Thanks for joining us.

I will not rehearse the arguments that we have just heard about the differentials. It is important for us all to remember that, for the additional people who will get money, it is £1 a week. That will barely scratch the surface, and Energy Action Scotland said last week that it would be

“a finger in a dam”—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 8 December 2022; c 13.]

against fuel poverty. We really need to bear that in mind when we are talking about something that has also been described as an

“ill-conceived benefit. Aghast that it has ever been launched”.

I genuinely share that concern.

Last week, Energy Action Scotland told us that, during the winter of 2020-21, at typical consumption rates for energy, the cold weather payment provided 56 days of heat. A £50 payment to the same community at the current rate provides only seven days of heat. Across the winter of 2023-24, the £50 payment will provide only six days of heat. As I said, the offer is not going to be enough for people in need. You say that you have retained the ability to legislate for additional payments for those groups should the need arise. How do you determine need, and how do we know that you will do that, given that, when you gave a commitment about doubling the carers allowance supplement, that never materialised?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Not on this area, convener.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I thank the minister and his officials for answering questions this morning. However, I am afraid that I do not accept that the new payment is better simply because it is reliable. All that people can rely on is a payment for six days of heat. That is £1 a week, which Energy Action Scotland called

“a finger in a dam”.—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 8 December 2022; c 13.]

Furthermore, it will not even be available until February, which is far too late.

The alternative that we have before us is not acceptable. I believe that my constituents in Glasgow will be aghast at the fact that all that they will get to deal with the fuel poverty that they are in is £1 a week. I agree with a Glasgow constituent who has written to the minister and me saying:

“I am aghast that this ill-conceived benefit has been launched.”

On that basis, minister and convener, I am afraid that I cannot support the motion but abstain. I hope that the Government will reconsider its approach.