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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 September 2025
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Displaying 5780 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Scottish Housing Regulator “Annual Report and Accounts 2021-22”

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

Thank you.

We will continue for a bit longer. I will bring in Paul McLennan.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

I support Colin Smyth’s amendments 114, 120, 125 and 128, which would remove the use of a bird of prey as an accepted method of killing a wild mammal under sections 3 and 5 to 7. The committee heard evidence from, for example, the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission and OneKind that killing a wild mammal with a bird of prey is neither humane nor efficient. There is no justification for its being a permitted method of killing under sections 3 and 5 to 7 when other more humane and effective methods are available.

I understand that the Government does not wish to ban falconry by the back door, but amendments 114, 120, 125 and 128 would not do that. They would simply remove the option to use a bird of prey to kill a wild mammal for wildlife control, environmental benefit or other purposes.

I urge members to vote for Colin Smyth’s amendments.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

Okay. Thank you.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

Convener, I wish to put on the record that, on amendment 158, I would have voted no.

Amendment 159 not moved.

Amendment 210 moved—[Rachael Hamilton].

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

I speak in favour of Christine Grahame’s amendment 174.

Trail hunting was invented in England after the Hunting Act 2004 was passed. It provides a loophole for hunting with packs to continue. Police Scotland told the committee that, if trail hunting were made illegal, it would certainly limit the opportunity for fox hunting, so the Government is right to ban it pre-emptively by making trail hunting an offence. However, we must also be alive to the potential loopholes in the exception for training a dog to follow an animal-based scent for a lawful purpose.

Christine Grahame’s amendment 174 would ensure that anyone training dogs to follow a scent would need to take precautions and not allow the dogs to pursue a wild mammal. Further, they must not allow themselves to act recklessly. That is, they must not get into a situation in which they might foreseeably lose control of the dog, even if accidentally. That is crucial to ensuring that the ban on trail hunting is fit for purpose, which is crucial to helping to put an end to hunting with packs of dogs.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

—for human entertainment. That is unacceptable, and I cannot support amendment 244.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

I understand that that is a bit of a deviation from European Union legislation. What is the thinking in the EU that means that it does not allow meat to be sold as defrosted? I want to get assurance that you have thought through all of that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

My amendments 192 and 193 are straightforward. They would simply add that, if a court convicts a person of a relevant offence and makes a deprivation order or a seizure order that affects the person’s dog or horse, any so-called “disposal” of that dog or horse

“must take into account the need to ensure”

its welfare.

I did not lodge amendments that would seek to add that requirement to the destruction option because sections 16 and 18 already state that a court cannot order the destruction of a dog or a horse

“unless it is satisfied, on evidence provided ... by a veterinary surgeon, that destruction would be in the interests of the”

animal.

I want to note on record that it is appalling that activities such as fox hunting may feasibly result in destruction being in the best interests of a dog or horse and that such activities are able to continue.

I thank the minister for offering to work with me at stage 3 to ensure that my amendments to the sections on deprivation and seizure orders would work alongside other such orders, so I will not move my amendments. I look forward to working with the minister at stage 3.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

I support Colin Smyth’s amendments in this group, because it is prudent to require that reasonable steps be taken to ensure that dogs do not form a relay. As he has said, mounted hunts in England have been seen using several pairs of dogs one after the other to chase stags, and these amendments would help avoid similar practices being adopted here by making them an offence.

09:45  

I do not support Rachael Hamilton’s amendments in the group. Amendment 244 defines the term “pack” in a way that excludes working gun dogs. Gun dogs are, simply, dogs that are trained to retrieve game. Apart from the problem of unambiguously defining what a working gun dog is—whether a dog is a “gun dog” and whether it was “working” at the time that it was hunting a wild mammal—that definition of “pack” would create yet another loophole, as those who are bent on hunting with packs of dogs would simply argue that they were using working gun dogs. To be frank, amendment 244 seems like an 11th-hour attempt to allow hunting with packs of dogs to continue, not in order to protect livestock or the environment but for sport and—

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Ariane Burgess

I have concluded my comments.