Chamber and committees

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to the current 40 Days for Life protests. (S6F-02931)

I thank Karen Adam for securing this important members’ business debate. I, too, extend my gratitude to young carers across Scotland, including those who are joining us in the public gallery this afternoon, for the incredible work that they do in looking after their loved ones.

Yesterday, we celebrated young carers action day, and I commend the immense contribution that young carers make to our society when caring for their family and loved ones. As others have said, many young carers would not think twice about what it is that they do, but we need to think deeply about how we support them properly. Caring for someone should not be a barrier to equal opportunities in learning or participating in life, especially at a young age. Much too often, young carers’ lives are further complicated by education and employment systems that fail to identify and understand the diversity of their caring roles or to respond to their support needs. We need to address issues for young adult carers in that regard, too. For some, any good support that was provided at school stops when they leave, and those carers need to start again when they are at college or university or in the workplace.

Carers Trust research found that 59 per cent of young carers in Scotland care for more than 20 hours each week, with 12 per cent of them spending 50 hours or more providing unpaid care on a weekly basis. I welcome the launch by Carers Trust of the first-ever UK-wide covenant for young carers and young adult carers, which has been shaped by the views of more than 500 young carers. I thank Carers Trust for allowing me to attend the launch of the covenant earlier this week, and I encourage everyone in the chamber to sign up to it.

We heard from young carers from across the UK about their experience and what they want to see for young and young adult carers. The session was led by young carers, who did a wonderful job of articulating not only their experience but the experience that they had gathered from others. They told us that young carers need lasting and meaningful change. We must ensure that they remain at the forefront of policy development and have access to the support that they are entitled to and deserve. In Scotland, they must have a fair chance to prosper in all aspects of their lives so that they can achieve their full potential and secure a fair future.

Karen Adam is correct to say that we need to provide opportunities for those young people to be young people. I have been hugely privileged to attend the young carers festival, which allows young carers to take a break from their caring responsibilities and provides them with a space to see friends and have their voices heard.

There was also an opportunity to ask questions of MSPs, and I was struck by the number of issues that young carers wanted to ask me about. I was totally prepared for questions about caring and access to services, but many of them were asking questions about other issues completely unrelated to their caring responsibilities that they were passionate about. It struck me that that is actually what the young carers festival is partly about: allowing young people to get into things that interest them. It was an enlightening experience, even if the young carers absolutely put me through my paces and challenged my policy knowledge. If anyone here gets the chance to go to the festival, they absolutely should.

I will take this opportunity to shine a light on some of the incredible work that is going on across central Scotland that is aimed at benefiting young carers. At the Falkirk and Clackmannanshire carers centre, the organisation offers support tailored to the needs of young carers aged from eight to 18. That includes a support group, which provides monthly sessions that give young carers a rest from their caring responsibilities and a chance to connect with peers who understand their experiences.

In North and South Lanarkshire, young carers are dedicated to supporting the experiences of other young carers across the region. Their mission involves raising awareness and identifying and offering direct support to those who care for family members with illness or disability, including those who care for parents with mental health or substance abuse issues.

I extend my very best wishes to all those who are involved in this year’s young carers action day in their endeavours. Young carers action day serves as an important reminder of the invaluable contributions that young carers make to our communities and to their families, and of the urgent need for support and recognition of their vital role. Together we must amplify their voices, champion their rights and work tirelessly towards a more inclusive and supportive society, in which every young carer feels valued and empowered.

In its evidence, the Law Society of Scotland said that arrangements for penalties and appeals should

“reflect the desire to ensure compliance, rather than being used as a mechanism to raise revenue”

and that the penalties should be well publicised. Are the potential penalties and consequences for non-compliance being communicated as part of your engagement with industry? Do you feel that the right balance is being struck between improving compliance and raising revenue?

Do you foresee any other operational issues, especially in the early days of the scheme being live? For example, there have sometimes been issues with getting data across from HMRC. Do you see that being a potential issue? Are such issues being worked out at the moment?

That is great. Thank you.

Organisations are concerned about how disposable or single-use vapes are defined. They are concerned that manufacturers might try to add a USB port to a disposable vape to get around potential regulation, as well as about the potential scope of exemptions in the regulations. Will the minister provide some assurances on those issues and detail any other work that is under way while we wait for a ban to be in place, such as instructing retailers to put vapes behind cover and tackling advertising?

To ask the Scottish Government what public health measures are being taken to minimise harm from vaping, prior to the introduction of the proposed ban on single-use vapes. (S6O-03179)

I have no relevant interests to declare.

Does Emma Harper agree that, as part of that, we must also look at self-directed support and how that is delivered across the country? When we look at the national care service as a whole, we need to ensure that it is about not just directly delivered services but self-directed support, too.

Absolutely. I thank Emma Harper for mentioning SAMH in particular because, for many of those carers, the mental health aspect—the trauma of being unable to get to their loved ones—exacerbated the situation, and that led to the want and need for Anne’s law in the first place.

As I have said previously, although I appreciate that Anne’s law is currently proposed to relate only to social care settings, given what many people, including me, experienced during the pandemic with loved ones being in hospital, I believe that it should be extended to cover those settings, too.

We also all agree on the creation of a right to short breaks for carers. However, the appropriate monitoring will need to be in place to ensure that it has the desired effect and is delivered consistently across the country and, crucially, to carers of all ages. As co-convener of the cross-party group on carers, I note that we have heard about the difficulties that some carers face in knowing where to go for support and help or because they have not been identified as a carer in the first place. I hope that that will be factored into the on-going work on the bill.

The general principles of the bill mark a shift in the way in which care is considered. We particularly welcome the positive language on the value of care. It describes care as “an investment in society”. Meeting the aspirations in the bill, such as recognising that meeting individuals’ needs is essential to achieve their human rights and that fair work principles should be key to the delivery of services, is essential if we are to change the way that care is currently delivered.

We have heard from many organisations and individuals about the appetite that many have for change and reform of social care. The bill lays the foundations for a national care service, allowing for a big part of the substantive detail to be co-designed with people who access support, those who deliver it and unpaid carers. I have been clear in committee that we need to ensure that that is done in a sustainable manner for those who are involved in the co-design process. There are a huge number of workstreams and we need to make sure that those who give their experience are supported to do so without there being a detrimental effect on them.

Structural reorganisation will go only part of the way towards realising the ambition of change and reform in social care. Delivery and implementation of change is vital both locally and nationally if we are to make a real difference to social care. That will also have to be carefully monitored to ensure that it has the desired outcomes.

Although framework bills are difficult to scrutinise, I believe that one of the bill’s potential strengths lies in the fact that it is a framework bill. I believe that it is right to analyse the impact of reform and then adapt what is in the secondary legislation to improve outcomes, correct any unintended consequences and adapt to new circumstances, with appropriate scrutiny mechanisms attached.

We must be wary and note that having a legal duty to collaborate will not in itself lead to effective collaboration. Much of it will rely on consistent leadership and cultures across health and social care, which we have heard are not the reality everywhere.

Whereas the engagement on the bill’s general principles has been positive, we heard in committee that concerns remain about how some of them would be achieved in practice.

If we want the national care service to be as successful as possible, we must ensure that it is viable and that it addresses the issues flagged at stage 1. I welcome the committee’s commitment to a more in-depth stage 2 process and look forward to hearing more evidence from organisations and individuals on any potential changes. Several important stakeholders who have recommended that the bill passes have also been clear that there are substantial amendments to be made at stage 2. For example, the Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland recommends amendments that support the full and equal membership of people with lived experience in reformed IJBs and on the national care service board. That would include being given full voting rights and a duty to include multiple members with lived experience if any meeting is to be considered quorate. I also believe there should be workforce representation on the board.

There is very little time to get through everything that I would have liked to get through, but the establishment of a national care service must be informed by the voices of lived experience, including those who access support and care, the workforce and unpaid carers.

The national care service offers an opportunity to improve people’s experiences of rights-based, person-centred social care, if it is implemented in a way that responds to the concerns and experiences of people who are accessing social care as well as the workforce, and if it implements the recommendations of the independent review of adult social care.