Chamber and committees

The attainment gap in Scotland is narrowing, not because of better scores by disadvantaged children but because of the worsening scores of the most affluent. I did not get that data from the secretive Scottish National Party but from elsewhere.

I am organising a round-table meeting with education experts and political parties to thrash out what we need to do differently to improve outcomes for young people.

Michael Gove will be in attendance. Will the cabinet secretary join us?

I apologise for being late this morning.

I have a question about CEDAW, which is an interesting part of the human rights legislation that we will potentially be looking into soon. Following on from Amanda Lindsay’s point, my understanding is that CEDAW’s text is sex-based. Is that the lens through which the consultation has looked at it? Would it be the case that we are looking at it as a sex-based right that we are looking to incorporate into human rights legislation?

It would be good to have a greater understanding of the issue, as Holly Bruce has rightly pointed out. The questions could be asked in relation to both the instruments, so I suggest that we defer consideration of both, because they are on the same issue. There might be questions in both areas.

I echo the point that tackling violence against women and girls will be top of the agenda, and rightly so. It will shape a lot of the work that we do in the committee. We must hear from women’s groups—that is widely understood—and particularly from those who are campaigning for prevention of violence and coming forward with solutions. However, I think that one key thing is missing, and I would be interested to hear the panel’s view on this: engaging and mobilising men’s groups. We are discussing the behaviour and culture of men without having men in the room. They have to form part of the discussion if we are looking for role models or ways in which to alter how we tackle violence against women and girls. I am interested in the witnesses’ views on that approach, which I hope will form part of the solution to the issues that we are experiencing in our society.

I think that what will be important is the interaction between the Supreme Court ruling and, as you say, the definitions that are contained in the bill. That was really helpful. Thank you.

It is a pleasure to follow Willie Rennie, who made an excellent contribution.

The most dangerous place in Scotland to be a woman is her own home, and I think that we should all reflect on that for just a moment. More than 200 women have been killed by men in Scotland over the past 16 years, and we have remembered some of them today—Stacy Hunter, Samantha Lee, Esther Brown, Claire Inglis, Demi Hannaway, Jill Barclay and other women who have been subjected to a torrent of domestic abuse and violence at the hands of men.

This year alone, it is likely that 14 women will be killed. Sexual violence is on the rise, and one in five women will experience some form of domestic abuse in their lifetime. However, women still do not have the confidence to approach the police to report sexual violence or domestic abuse. That should shame each and every one of us into action, and it should drive everything that we do in the Parliament, because this simply cannot go on.

Our ambition should be not simply to tackle violence against women and girls but to deliver justice for them. Women deserve to be believed, and perpetrators should be held accountable. Women and girls must feel safe in our society.

Justice means that when our courts impose a sentence, it means something. This afternoon, I joined the First Minister, Russell Findlay and Stephen Kerr for a round-table discussion on how we deliver justice. We listened to survivors of domestic abuse, women’s rights campaigners and family members who are working to raise awareness of the behaviours that women are subjected to in our society.

However, we need to be honest about some of the choices that we have already made in this Parliament, because, when we look at issues in relation to bail, we have to ask a very simple question: whose side is the justice system on? The Scottish Government has changed the bail system, removing the presumption against bail for sex-related crimes. That matters to survivors of domestic abuse and sexual violence. Of course, everyone who is accused of a crime is entitled to a fair process, and a fair process should just be that, but justice must also recognise the very real vulnerability of victims.

We cannot have secretive plea deals only for bail conditions to be breached time and time again. Why are bail conditions not taken seriously? Victims cannot be an afterthought in our bail system, and we must be exceptionally careful about any changes that could undermine victims’ confidence in coming forward and putting across their concerns about the behaviours that have been inflicted on them.

The same principle applies to sentencing and release. The Scottish Government should abandon its plan to move towards automatic early release for long-term prisoners. If a court imposes a lengthy custodial sentence, victims and the public quite reasonably expect that sentence to carry meaning. When we are talking about serious violence and sexual offending, public protection must be our number 1 priority.

We should also scrap the under-25s sentencing guideline, because if someone is old enough to commit a serious violent crime, they must be held properly accountable for the consequences of their actions. We cannot allow a victim’s suffering to be diminished because of the age of the person who commits the offence.

We have had a really good debate. The issue should not be about party politics. Willie Rennie, Karen Adam and others gave outstanding speeches. However, we have to be prepared to do what is necessary to protect women and girls. The Sunday Post has launched the It’s Time campaign to tackle domestic abuse and sexual violence. This afternoon, Thomas Hawkins summarised it perfectly during the round table. He said that, when he was putting Marion Scott’s piece together and editing the front cover, he looked at the faces of survivors who all died, usually by someone who loved them: grandmothers, mothers and in some circumstances, those who were going to be mothers. He concluded that we need cultural and societal change. I agree.

The Sunday Post’s decision to confront the issue, not ignore it, is the only way forward for each and every one of us. However, campaigns work only if we listen. Listening means more than holding a debate in this Parliament. We need to change aspects of the law and current policies that are not working. That is what our amendment sets out today. We hope that the Government will act in good faith and work with us on that. It’s time to act; it’s time to put victims first; and it’s time to deliver justice for women and girls.

17:01

Will David Linden take an intervention on that point?

Does David Linden agree that we must revisit some of the justice legislation that has been passed in recent times to ensure that we truly stand up for victims and survivors of violence against women and girls?

Thank you. I welcome colleagues’ comments. This petition was lodged in 2022, and I welcome the efforts by this group of petitioners to continue the conversation about whistleblowing and the need for a national discussion on how we change whistleblowing, not just to make whistleblowing safe for public sector employees, but to ensure that we safeguard children. The point is well made that the issue links directly to what we are seeing in relation to grooming gangs and the wider issues around child safeguarding.

If I may make a further suggestion, I understand that the convener has set out the Scottish Government’s response in relation to phase 11 of the Scottish child abuse inquiry, but I wonder whether the committee would seek clarification from the Scottish Government that that work will include whistleblowing. The response is generic—I understand that the Government is trying to provide an overview—but it would be helpful, not just for the committee but for the petitioners, to know that whistleblowing will be at the heart of the work that the Government is undertaking. I say that because we must ensure that the measures that will be considered and the recommendations that follow, and that are then put into practice in terms of policy, will be followed. For that reason, we need to know exactly what the work will include.