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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 February 2026
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Displaying 3353 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

I appreciate that, but I am going to assert something, which is that, under the provisions of the Scottish public finance manual, there is not a clearly defined person who is fulfilling the role of accountable officer as per the manual and the requirement. You have used diplomatic language, but I am interpreting it that way. Please jump in and say that I have completely misinterpreted what you said, if that is not the case, but it sounds to me as though we are in an unsatisfactory position, where delegations that are not permitted are going on, and there is someone in a role who is not in a position to fulfil the full measure of the accountable officer role.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

So we have still not had action from the Scottish Government or the office of the cabinet secretary to remedy the situation where a significant and very important body in Historic Environment Scotland is operating at a red status.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

You mentioned other issues, such as the toxicity of the workplace, which has been widely reported. We express our gratitude to those who have been courageous enough to whistleblow about the toxicity of the organisational culture in HES. Two positive things have happened: the appointment of Sir Mark Jones—who no doubt has his hands full, as he has a contract for only two days a week—and a brand-new chief operating officer. However, do you have any concerns that it will require something more than that to deal with the ingrained nature of the toxicity of the organisation and its culture? Do you have a view, for example, on whether there ought to have been, before now—or at least now—some form of external, independent review of the organisation and its workings and culture?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

Is that an internal review?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

I agree with Keith Brown about the potential of Historic Environment Scotland. It is a huge asset and my follow-up question is about those assets.

In your report, you describe

“a culture of non-compliance”.

Have you conducted any kind of formal review of the governance of health and safety and asset management compliance? I ask that because, earlier this week, whistleblowers disclosed that there had been some issues with legionella at Stirling castle.

Other people in the organisation have told me that they know that the asset management team at HES has raised, under the traffic-light system, red-rated concerns about health and safety on many occasions. I am told that there is a catalogue of concerns. I have not seen any of that, so I am raising it with you. Have you have looked at that? Is that part of what you describe as the “culture of non-compliance”?

I am told that the health and safety reports—those concerns about asset safety—have been regularly made over many years, but have been routinely set aside and ignored, with nothing done with them. Is that something that you have looked at, or is it something that you would look at?

11:00

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

I perfectly understand that many different aspects of HES have come under your ever-watchful eye, hence the section 22 report. However, I have to confess this one specific issue—the culture of non-compliance—has come to me very late.

Lisa, do you want to come in?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Scottish Broadcasting, BBC Charter Renewal and BBC Annual Report

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

You said that they are doing that pretty much in their own time.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Scottish Broadcasting, BBC Charter Renewal and BBC Annual Report

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

The other point of view is that the BBC should not be in competition with any of those and that it has a distinctive role to play in the ecosystem. It should not see itself as being in competition with Netflix.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Scottish Broadcasting, BBC Charter Renewal and BBC Annual Report

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

A few minutes ago, you said that, because of your role, you go around the world and you meet Scottish independent producers on big stages, but what the small independents say to us is, “Yeah, but our work doesn’t get broadcast on the BBC.”

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Scottish Broadcasting, BBC Charter Renewal and BBC Annual Report

Meeting date: 22 January 2026

Stephen Kerr

But there is a growing minority who do not—