Chamber and committees

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I could not connect either. I would have voted no.

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I could not connect either. I would have voted no.

::On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I could not connect either. I would have voted no.

::Thank you for acknowledging the complexities and how wide ranging the issue is, given that it is cross-portfolio, cross-Governmental and cross-legislation.

The high-level action plan is the first of its kind in the UK. I draw your attention to the word “action” and I acknowledge that nobody just wants warm words, which is why I emphasise that word. The plan sets out systematically what we are doing to strengthen the implementation of rights in the areas that were raised by the UN committee, including some of those that you have mentioned, as well as fair work, social security, child poverty, educational and cultural rights and, of course, housing.

10:15

We acknowledge that human rights are interrelated and interdependent. The high-level action plan presents the strategic and co-ordinated actions that we will take across economic, social and cultural rights, although we will need to unpack that further in the relevant strategies and deliverable plans that are associated with those issues.

There are many areas to consider, but as Ms Chapman has raised housing, I can give a bit more detail on that, if it will be helpful. On housing access and affordability, the plan states a rights-based housing commitment that includes an expansion of the affordable housing supply, with the intention of setting up a new housing agency with a focus on simplicity, scale and speed to enable the delivery of housing of all types. It also includes the prevention and reduction of homelessness through on-going investment to prevent homelessness and rough sleeping, including £15 billion in 2025-26 for councils to support a range of services, including homelessness prevention, and targeted support to address housing inequalities for priority groups, including the coming home programme, for example, and improved outcomes for Gypsy Traveller communities through the Gypsy Traveller accommodation fund.

I can go into other areas if Ms Chapman wishes it.

::I can give an example that is based on what we are already doing. We are listening carefully to feedback relating to the challenges that resulted from the UNCRC compatibility duty and the concerns that were raised about the exemption to the compatibility duty during the recent parliamentary passage of the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill. That feedback will inform our consideration of the scope of the proposed duties in the human rights bill.

The bill will provide us with an opportunity to consider the alternative options that—as you suggested—may be available to ensure the best possible breadth of duties while still meeting the central aim of having a clear, accessible and navigable framework within devolved competence.

I hope that that answer is helpful. The issue is complex, and there is no easy answer. I wish that I could give you a one-line answer, but there is not one to give, because this issue demonstrates the complexities of how everything sits together. However, I can give you the assurance that all that work is being worked through at a detailed level with extensive engagement with stakeholders and experts in this space.

::I will link things together. We are absolutely committed to meeting the benchmark that international treaties and obligations such as the Istanbul convention have set. The final report from the Group of Experts on Action against Violence against Women and Domestic Violence, also known as GREVIO, gave us an insight into and key recommendations on how the Scottish Government is complying with the obligations that arise from the Istanbul convention. The report consisted of 90 recommendations, many of which are UK-wide, with some directed at individual nations, and you will be aware that they cover many areas including health, education, the no recourse to public funds condition, data collection and the criminal justice system.

Our equally safe delivery plan contains an action to respond to the GREVIO reporting process, as well as a commitment to develop an action plan in relation to how we will implement the Istanbul convention’s recommendations—I think that it is action 13.2 of the plan. We are working with internal and external partners in a concerned and comprehensive way to develop the GREVIO action plan. Ahead of the election period, we intend to set out our plans for the next phase of implementing the GREVIO recommendations, including the key actions in the priority areas.

::I understand what you are asking. That exemplifies how wide ranging the plan is and that so many people are involved in its delivery, which supports our view that we need to take time to work through it so that we end up with something that will make sure that people can realise their rights. People can have rights but, as the committee has said previously, they must be able to realise those rights.

That is where we need extensive engagement. We have to take people with us not only through awareness raising but through the capacity and capability building that has been going on throughout. I have talked to the committee previously about embedding a human rights approach in everything that we do.

One example is the mainstreaming toolkit, and we must ensure that, in undertaking this work, we do not take away from that culture of embedding human rights in the first place. Of course, that is not a new concept, and we are all working towards the same goal in that respect.

Your question went further than that, I suppose, in recognising the third sector’s essential and valued work in delivering that support to people and communities. I assure you that it plays a very strategic role in enabling that transformation and the delivery of person-centred services.

On the issue of funding, it was announced in the draft budget for 2026-27 that the Scottish Government will invest £14.2 million in third sector infrastructure and development. Latest estimates indicate that, across Government, we invested over £1 billion in the sector in 2023.

If Ms Chapman is asking me about the sustainability of that as we progress our work on human rights, I would just say that multiyear funding is always asked for, and we recognise that longer-term planning allows for sustainability and security of development. Therefore, we are delivering against our commitment to develop a fairer funding approach by providing more multiyear funding to third sector organisations that deliver those front-line services and are tackling child poverty. Indeed, in the 2025-26 programme for government, we committed to delivering a fairer funding pilot to provide more of that multiyear funding to third sector organisations, prioritising those that, as I have said, deliver front-line services and which tackle child poverty. That pilot consists of 51 Government grants for third sector organisations totalling over £130 million over the period from 2025-26 to 2026-27.

I hope that that helps.

::I fully acknowledge your concerns. We have seen some absolutely appalling scenes. Although I would always uphold the right to legitimate, peaceful protest, there is absolutely no place for the incitement of any kind of hatred towards any kind of group.

::Data is collected; it is incorrect to say that it is not. With reference to intersectionalities, which we have spoken about before, different protected characteristics intersect, which causes additional layers of discrimination, depending on the characteristics. For instance, if someone is from an ethnic minority and is a disabled person, that creates additional layers of discrimination. Although those aspects come under separate protected characteristics, they will inevitably intersect.

I will give you an example. You talked about gathering evidence and data on disabled people. In January, we published a comprehensive and intersectional evidence review of disabled people’s experiences in Scotland, delivering key actions from our disability equality plan. The review was a difficult read. There were things that set out the stark reality and the intersectional barriers that disabled people face, particularly if they are from the LGBT community or an ethnic minority. All those factors add layers.

10:45

For the Government, it was really helpful to bring together all that evidence, which will be central to informing future policies. Ultimately, as we have talked about before, the need for data is not only about the numbers. We must consider how data will affect policy and people’s outcomes and improve their life chances. The evidence will inform our future policies and priorities as we seek to improve disabled people’s lives. The publication of the evidence also supports our wider commitment to strengthen the use of the equality and intersectional evidence from public and corporate policy design, monitoring and evaluation.

You are quite right—it is great that you have taken the issue down to a community level by mentioning the things that you have. From what I remember, we have expanded the changing places toilets Scotland fund. There have been huge investments in that area, which have been welcomed. Specific outcomes result from such investments.

Are we collecting the data? Yes, we are. Is it important? Yes, it is. Does it affect our policy decisions? Yes, it does. Our aim is to improve lives. To bring the discussion back to the human rights bill, it will bring all those aspects together and strengthen people’s rights while laying the groundwork for the implementation of future human rights. Everybody has the right to be able to access a toilet—of course they do. The bill will enable that to happen. Funding comes with that commitment—for the Improvement Service and NHS Education for Scotland—in order to strengthen everybody’s knowledge and understanding.

Forgive me if I went off track a bit.

::The human rights bill will enable everybody's rights to be realised and focus everybody’s minds on ensuring that. There is also the public sector equality duty. I would remind all organisations that they have a duty to collect appropriate data to feed into that policy. We have to ask what the aim is, why we are collecting the data and what we are trying to achieve. We need to make sure that we collect data that is appropriate and fit for purpose. That is what I expect. As I said, the equality evidence finder might help to provide the committee with more information.